Range Report PSA PA-15 M4 carbine (uh oh)

[lionking]

Well.........

Got it during black Friday, a upper complete and lower complete. Actually checking a couple weeks ago their prices are still the same $350.00 for both. With all the positive comments on PSA I thought why not, a $350.00 AR get them while you can. I bought a Bushmaster Carry handle off gun broker for $50.00 new as I wanted to make this rifle a iron sight one.

So couple weeks ago dialed it in at 50 yards, wasn't getting great groups at that distance but went after that to the 100 yard and dialed it in a bit more. The results that day was dismal but I chalked it up to having a off day my eyes were off and I was tired after shooting other guns for hours.

Today I set up at 100 yards and without touching the sights tested different brands both 5.56 and .223 all 55 grain. I was rested, my eyes were fine.

Now I don't claim to be the greatest shot but having shot a few other AR, Colt A2, Colt A4, FN A4, Colt SP1, Bushmaster M4 and S&W sporter it has always been pretty easy for me to keep 10 shots in the 10 ring with maybe a couple off in the 9 ring on a SR1 target with iron sights with a front rest. Or to say on average 10 shots in a 2 inch group at a 100 yards.

Well here are the results with the PSA rested at 100 yards, tried Federal and Winchester .223 along with Aguila 5.56 and .223 and Winchester 5.56. Upper and lower lock up tight, the carry handle is on tight the sights are fine. Have put 120 rounds through it so far, and accuracy with all tested ammo is pretty bad. On some targets if you don't count 10 shots it's because the went off the repair target .

I dunno, from what I got today a average older MINI 14 does better. I am going to get some .62 grain MAYBE it's what it needs but my other AR with 1/7 twist handle .55 grain fine.

I 'll report back again when I try again, I know some of you reported good shooting with PSA but not me so far. For now I'd recommend spend a little more and get a S&W sporter for a budget type AR. Out of the box my S&W shot dandy.
View attachment 885491

 

[BrocLuno]

I'd be looking for a boo-boo ... Check the actual crown. I know it's a pain, but maybe the barrel mount into the upper is a bit off? Maybe a different barrel nut and you torque it ... Maybe the bolt lock-up is not consistent ... So try a different bolt out of one of your others

 

[<*(((><]

Crown
Retorque the barrel nut
Better ammo

Sorry have to ask the question how good of an iron sight shooter are you?

that would be what I would be looking at.

 

[troy fairweather]

That's pretty typical with that ammo type.

 

[adcoch1]

Looks about right for that ammo. I have had some terrible groups with the Winchester, and others that were fine. Try some decent 62 grn stuff or the imi 69 grn. And make sure you are using the small peep on the sight not the big one. Some people's eyes have a hard time with the large diopeter (sp)

 

[d2wing]

I had the same problem with a PSA. Turns out the bolt carrier was out of spec and the bolt was binding. Bought a complete BCM bolt carrier group and it is pretty good now. It was actually better with a DPMS lower. It was hard to narrow it down. There are lots of little things that can screw up accuracy.

 

[lionking]

Crown

Sorry have to ask the question how good of an iron sight shooter are you?

that would be what I would be looking at.

Colt A2 using iron sights not the Armson dot
View attachment 885527
Bushmaster M4
View attachment 885530

FN A4
View attachment 885534
SP1
View attachment 885536

 

[lionking]

That's pretty typical with that ammo type.

Have to disagree,a AR with run of the mill ammo of about any brand or grain it should be fairly easy to keep 10 in the black at 100 yards using a rest, or at least a pattern consistent , a AR that won't keep 10 shots even on a the size of the repair SR1 target, something is wrong

 

[troy fairweather]

For your other groups you posted there's little difference, you your said it was not your best day.

 

[lionking]

Looks about right for that ammo. I have had some terrible groups with the Winchester, and others that were fine. Try some decent 62 grn stuff or the imi 69 grn. And make sure you are using the small peep on the sight not the big one. Some people's eyes have a hard time with the large diopeter (sp)

I am using the small peep, here is a typical group I get with the S&W using a Votrex optic, with Winchester ammo, same ammo with iron in other AR, gets a little bigger but not like the PSA group which is all over the place with several types of ammo. As some have said probably a boo boo making the gun, it isn't me, it isn't the ammo something is up with the gun.

 

[lionking]

For your other groups you posted there's little difference, you your said it was not your best day.

Take a look again, the PSA groups with all ammo barely can keep it on the paper let alone in the black which the black is 6 inches in diameter, , the Aquila does seem to do better in it so far, today I felt fine and sharp, it was the first time trying it two weeks ago that day I felt off . This PSA is doing 7 to 8 inch group at 100 yards, while any other AR I have used did 4 inch on a bad day, 2 inches or less on a really good day.

 

[troy fairweather]

Well put a scope on it and rule out the cheap carry handle, a use good match ammo. You could always get closer, it a m4 that you got cheap, I think it's doing fine.

 

[adcoch1]

Should be able to pull under 3moa even with 55 grn, but sometimes not. I am suspicious of your carry handle. I had one all of a sudden lose zero, and it was the windage adjuster that screwed up. Weird problem but took a bit to diagnose a 8 moa target

 

[lionking]

Should be able to pull under 3moa even with 55 grn, but sometimes not. I am suspicious of your carry handle. I had one all of a sudden lose zero, and it was the windage adjuster that screwed up. Weird problem but took a bit to diagnose a 8 moa target

I do have a Colt handle came off my A4 that I put a optic on I could try it, however Bushmaster is not known for bad quality , my other Bushmaster shoots well. If I bought one of the cheap Chinese handles not forged I would consider it more, however I think I will install the Colt one to eliminate possibilities and maybe try a different bolt as suggested also.

We will see, in the end though it could just be PSA has quality control issues. Troy is right in that hey I got a $350.00 AR, but quality is quality.....or not, if a manufacture is going to highlight in selling AR's, well then......

 

[newfalguy101]

Actually its pretty well known that PSA has had quality issues, at least in the past, along with slow customer service.

First thing I would try is a known good optic to determine if its the gun or not, then start the other things suggested above, one at a time till it shoots to your liking.

Personally I have had very good luck with the PSA products I have bought.

 

[LoonWulf]

Maybe contact PSA and see what THEY say about it. ALL things will have some failures, more so with mass produced items. While I would expect better performance from MY experience with PSA, and other cheap AR brands, you may have just hit the suck jackpot this round. If so, Hopefully they will be willing to help you out on it.
You might get a "Nope, its within spec" or a "Try better ammo" but youll never know unless you ask.

If THAT fails, Id suggest as others to do more testing then tear the upper down and reassemble.

 

[M1key]

Ditto the good optic. I keep one around just for testing accuracy over irons. Helps keep me sane. Almost...

M

 

[maxxhavoc]

Not sure how much you have done to ARs, but I would be testing the barrel torque and removing the muzzle device.

And the folks saying to try another set of sights aren't wrong either.

 

[1KPerDay]

View attachment 885537

Dang it likes that 45 grain stuff doesn’t it!

 

[LoonWulf]

I just went thru and really looked at your groups.....

Amusingly your worst groups are about as good as I personally can to achieve with an iron sighted carbine lol.
My sks had something like a 30" sight radius and I'd still pitch rounds off wierd places every once in a while. Scoped it was a pretty consistent 1.5/2" gun.

 

[BrocLuno]

If, after you've looked in the obvious places and tried different bullet weights, if it still seems too variable - I'd get a FrankenBolt and test it with that.

I have one (and one on the way). Love them as alternative test units. The one I already have is now married to a Wylde chambered carbine length upper, so I had to order another for a test and back-up unit ...

 

[czhen]

Buy ammo according to your barrel twist with different brands again.

 

[Casefull]

As has already been said until you put a scope on it of known value you’re just guessing.

 

[Mike .45]

As a few others have stated, i would put a scope on it and shoot some groups to confirm group size.

PSA gets a lot of love for their pricing and their Pro-2A stance but... There are drawbacks to that low pricing. Their shipping can be painfully slow. Their C/S has a hit or miss reputation and sometimes you get a great rifle and sometimes it is just "Meh".

I have 3 PSA uppers on AR's I have assembled and only 1 is a great shooter. It is a LW nitride upper with one of their free float handguards. I really like it I also have a M4gery that my son assembled before leaving for boot camp last year and it is just ok. The last is a 10.5 inch pistol upper that is ok to slightly disappointing.

I will be scoping scoping it soon just to check accuracy. Right now it's too cold and wet though. It lives with PSA carry handle on it. It's not horrible given it's short length and iron sights but I just need to know.

I still like PSA and will buy from them again but I understand they their stuff is built to a price point. I do think I'm an going step up to the FN barrels for my next builds though.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

The M4 style rifle was designed as a 4MOA rifle. Buying the cheapest one you can find and expecting more than that with cheap ammo seems unrealistic. I too agree with the others in regards to scoping it. I'm pro-PSA, I've got a couple of their uppers and lowers and the G3 PSAK47 but I think what you've got and what you are doing is acceptable.