Really Happened How Would You Respond?

[The Night Rider]

Guy 2 was probably just scratching his balls.

And on private property why in the heck should it matter if he exposes himself (or his gat) in the process.

Because in Colorado what he did could have been Felony Menacing.

Because I could have taken it wrong. I could have thought he was reaching for his gun. I was carrying a gun too.

Do you really not see how that could have gone off the rails real quick?

This business will get out of control (Red October)

Fred Thompson saying we'll be lucky to live through it.

youtu.be

 

[luzyfuerza]

Did you miss the Bold text in my original post ?

Nope. I quoted what you told us Guy 1 actually said.

The rest reads like...wait for it...your inference.

That is my point.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…And on private property why in the heck should it matter if he exposes himself (or his gat) in the process…"

OP has shared he resides in an apartment/condo/townhouse complex.
If neighbor is lawfully wearing a concealed firearm he has a responsibility to keep it concealed.
That is also just good manners, too.

 

[The Night Rider]

Nope. I quoted what you told us Guy 1 actually said.

The rest reads like...wait for it...your inference.

That is my point.

I'm not sure how to express this to you. The guy did not look at me and say "Mr. mind your own damn business." But that is most definitely the message I got.

 

[Old Dog]

Some folks just seem to want to believe they already know everything while also not subscribing to the notion of cordial interactions with neighbors. Seems clear they wanted to let you know they've no intention of being neighborly.

Screw them.

I personally might have taken a slight issue with a random stranger posturing by displaying that he was armed, under the same circumstances. Absolutely no need for that nonsense.

 

[The Night Rider]

I personally might have taken a slight issue with a random stranger posturing by displaying that he was armed, under the same circumstances. Absolutely no need for that nonsense.

I really wish that I could say this in a way that people understand it.

Have you ever seen somebody that's really new to concealed carry and without even thinking about it they keep fiddling with their gun. They keep touching it and adjusting it because they haven't learned to keep their hands off of it?

That's what the second guy looked like to me. It was like it was just a twitch, not like he was trying to display the gun because I never saw the gun. What I saw was part of a kydex holster. It was more like he was checking to make sure it was there

 

[Jeff White]

Have you ever seen somebody that's really new to concealed carry and without even thinking about it they keep fiddling with their gun. They keep touching it and adjusting it because they haven't learned to keep their hands off of it?

Yes, that’s a “tell” that someone isn’t used to carrying a gun. I think the important thing to take into consideration is what did your gut tell you was going down? Was there any other indication of hostile intent outside of a somewhat standoffish attitude?

If the guy was knew to carrying he probably unconsciously touched his weapon every couple minutes. If he hadn’t inadvertently exposed the holster you should have made a mental note that he was ljkely armed.

What was his posture like during the encounter? Did he assume an “interview stance”? Step back and open a reactionary distance? Is it possible he recognized that you were armed? A telltale print on your clothing?

 

[The Night Rider]

Yes, that’s a “tell” that someone isn’t used to carrying a gun. I think the important thing to take into consideration is what did your gut tell you was going down? Was there any other indication of hostile intent outside of a somewhat standoffish attitude?

If the guy was knew to carrying he probably unconsciously touched his weapon every couple minutes. If he hadn’t inadvertently exposed the holster you should have made a mental note that he was ljkely armed.

What was his posture like during the encounter? Did he assume an “interview stance”? Step back and open a reactionary distance? Is it possible he recognized that you were armed? A telltale print on your clothing?

This happened almost 7 hours ago so I'm sure that my own perceptions have colored my memory.

I never got any sense of "Hostile Intent". I got "I don't want to talk to you, leave me alone."

Guy 1 was at the bottom of the stairs Guy 2 (The one with the holster) was on top of the stairs.

I saw the holster quick. Thats what got my attention on Guy 2. As soon as I saw it he had my full attention. I'm sure my body language and stance changed. They may have picked up on that.

I got the impression that Guy 2 was stepping back in something like an interview stance except that he was left-handed (judging by where the holster was) and his left side was towards me. I don't know if either one of them had any idea that I was armed. They didn't do anything that gave me the impression that they thought I might be armed

Guy 1 listened to me and thanked me for my input but everything in his demeanor and body language was saying "I really don't want to talk to you."

As I mentioned previously, I have no intention of trying to interact with them again beyond the most basic common courtesies.

 

[Scrapiron45]

No big deal, move on.

 

[Kleanbore]

What could I have done better (Besides mind my own business in the first place)?

Seems to me like much ado about nothing.

And on private property why in the heck should it matter if he exposes himself (or his gat) in the process.

"Being on private property has nothing to do it if another person is in eyesight.

 

[wayneinFL]

Open carry is illegal in Colorado?

 

[The Night Rider]

Open carry is illegal in Colorado?

About a year ago our Democratic Run State House did away with State preemption.

So now it's up to each municipality to set their own regulations and laws regarding firearms. Which means on one side of the street it could be legal to open carry and the other side of the street it isn't.

Having said that, the guy wasn't open carrying.

He had his firearm concealed and as soon as I started speaking to them he exposed it.

In Colorado that would be called Felony Menacing.

 

[The Night Rider]

Seems to me like much ado about nothing.

Well, that makes one of you.

 

[Blue Jays]

If that Guy# 2 were clever he would have selected shirt/vest/jacket that would have made inadvertent weapon flashing impossible. Even if he did that newbie "gun touching" it still would have been covered by the proper garment.

 

[The Night Rider]

I've said this a half a dozen times in this discussion.

I really don't think that the guy was reaching for his gun or trying to intimidate me. In Colorado, the intent to threaten or intimidate as a key component of Felony Menacing.

I really think it was a twitch.

the problem is he had that twitch in front of somebody else who was carrying a gun.

There was a lot of room there for a really bad outcome.

That's why I brought it up here because it's a real thing that happened to me and it's a real thing that could happen to you

It's also one of those situations where you could very easily be one bad decision away from ruining your whole life

 

[GBExpat]

Perhaps they’re just of the hypersituationally aware pseudosheepdoggy quasiwarriormindset bubbakerseyvigilante types.

<chuckle> Try saying that 5 times fast ... or just once.

 

[GBExpat]

Seems to me like much ado about nothing.

Ayup, I have to agree.

 

[Kleanbore]

He had his firearm concealed and as soon as I started speaking to them he exposed it.

Earlier you said "he never exposed the gun or made any indication that he was reaching for it."
l.

Have you ever seen somebody that's really new to concealed carry and without even thinking about it they keep fiddling with their gun. They keep touching it and adjusting it because they haven't learned to keep their hands off of it?

That's what the second guy looked like to me. It was like it was just a twitch, not like he was trying to display the gun because I never saw the gun. What I saw was part of a kydex holster. It was more like he was checking to make sure it was there

Then why worry about him?


I have neighbors who are less than sociable, and who would probably react to an attempt at being helpful with a brushoff.

 

[The Night Rider]

Earlier you said "he never exposed the gun or made any indication that he was reaching for it."
.Then why worry about him?

I knew somebody was going to call me on that. I don't know how else to say it.

As soon as I started talking to them he pulled his t-shirt Up just enough that I could see the in the waistband holster.
but he didn't pull it so far up that I could see a gun.

Having said that, if I had decided to call the police and if I actually got a cop to respond to the call, the first thing they would have done was check and see if he had a gun on him. If he had a gun in a gray Kydex in the waistband holster where I said he had a gun in a gray Kydex in the waistband holster they would have arrested him.

Whether or not he would have been convicted I don't know but they would have arrested him.

Having said all that, do you really not see how this could have gone really bad if he had done that in front of somebody who was more aggressive or less experienced?

 

[Jeff White]

I really think it was a twitch.

What's the problem if it was just a twitch?

the problem is he had that twitch in front of somebody else who was carrying a gun.

You say your gun was concealed so how was he to know that?

There was a lot of room there for a really bad outcome.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see that. There are other indicators that an attack might be imminent that either didn't exist or you didn't mention. You've repeatedly stated that their attitude was unfriendly but not obviously hostile. Didn't you work as an armed security officer? Surely you have a lot of experience interacting with people in an environment that could turn hostile. If none of your other senses went off I wouldn't worry about it. If the guy wanted to intimidate you he would have exposed the gun. How many people who aren't shooters would have recognized the flash of gray kydex as a holster? People carry cell phones and other things on their belt. I have a leather case I carry my reading glasses in on my belt.

Based on what you've posted in this thread I just don't see a problem.

 

[The Night Rider]

Based on what you've posted in this thread I just don't see a prproblem.

Then lock it

 

[Kleanbore]

Done