Reinforcing an interior room?

[ZombiesAhead]

I have a rapidly growing collection of firearms I have been purchasing as fun semi-investments (hey, at least they hold most of their value). I have been burglered (sp?) once (years ago, for just a .22lr rifle way back in college) but I'm now kind of paranoid.

My collection is quickly getting rather large and this last AR-15 and STG-58 FAL have told me it's time to do something.

Currently, I store my collection of rifles/pistols/shotguns/optics/magazines in a quite large but cheap-o rifle safe bolted to joists in the floor and studs in the wall. With a good crowbar or probably a plasma cutter I could have the door pried apart in 5 minutes.

There is also lot of unsecured ammunition stored in the same room with no security precautions The only thing protecting ammo and the safe is the hollow interior door with a handle lock (could be kicked down instantly).

The worst part is I'm not at this house very often. Due to apartment-dwelling and moving I've been storing the collection at my mom's house and while she is armed (when at home) and knows how to lock the doors, the house is not particularly secure (lots of downstairs windows, no security). Make it take 'em 30 minutes instead 5.

What should I do (on somewhat of a budget) to secure this stuff? A security system is kind of out of the question as I feel it would not be taken seriously by my gun-tolerating but naive mother and sister. I think better physical reinforcement is the key.

If I could take care of this for about $500 _at the most_ it would be really worth it. I'm fully confident doing somewhat normal labor myself.

Here are some things I'm considering...

1. Locking, steel door to replace hollow door. Some sort of reinforcement that extends beyond the frame into the studs. I don't see walls being busted down by the average criminal not expecting a fortified room. They don't have all night to do this and it's not like many people know what I have. Do they make interior steel doors? Could I install one for under $500 and what do you think about this?

2. Big, serious, safe. Probably not happening at $500 or less.

3. Fortify the closet storing both the gun safe (and document safe). Unfortunately, the door is roughly 5' x 6". I'm not sure what kind of door would fit...

I don't think I've accidentally invited attack considering I don't know anyone here. Any other solutions? I'm tempted to try to find a steel door and really reinforce it into the studs.

 

[Run&Shoot]

What about one of those job site steel boxes and bolt it to the garage floor? If they can more or less secure construction tools at a job site then it would seem to be secure enough for a home that people are living in. You might even put it outside if necessary due to space, but then you have huidity to deal with.

That, or put in a steel door frame and steel door with a couple of dead bolts on that interior room.

 

[TAB]

A good job box is going to cost you alot more then 500. There really is not much you can do for 500 that a determined theif could not undo in less then 5 mins. A good solid door is a start, but once again, even a good security door on a interior wall is going to do very little. instead of them kicking in the door they will litterly be kickin in the wall. Best bet is spend that 500 towards INS.

The sad reality is every thing other then reinforced high tensile strength concrete is just going to take them mins to break thru... Even good safes( 2-5K range) can be opened with in 10 mins with simple tools and cheap tools( and no I'm not talking about a torch) with out exp in doing so.

 

[Harvster]

Search for "build your own safe room or storm shelter". You can find information on building concrete and rebar rooms in the basement etc. or reinforcing existing closets. Folks in Tornado alley will sometimes have a dual purpose gun safe/tornado shelter.

Another solution done cheaply may be to build a false wall or secret door. They can't steal what they don't know is there.

 

[MaterDei]

Does your mom like dogs?

 

[32winspl]

How about making up a sign to post on your storage container/safe? It could say something like

EXTREME EXPLOSION HAZARD
CONTAINS BLACK POWDER,
SMOKELESS POWDER
PERCUSSION CAPS

...something on that order. Nobody with half a brain would risk taking a torch to that.

 

[ilbob]

A good job box is going to cost you alot more then 500.

I guess it depends on just how good you want. Some I consider pretty good are available for much less than $500.

Personally, I am of the opinion that something is a lot better than nothing. It may not prevent the most determined thieves, but most thieves are more along the lines of smash and grab, rather then being willing to work at it for 5 or 10 minutes.

A better door just means they kick in the drywall walls instead.

 

[ZombiesAhead]

Yeah, we already have a dog - lots of bark, very little bite though.

It looks like there's not a whole lot to do here on my budget. I'll probably put in a steel door/frame to keep the lazy thief out and call it quits for now. Job boxes are a good idea but then I might as well start saving for a better safe.

FWIW, at least I live in a nice suburb, don't deal drugs, and don't have many people who know about my collection. I don't expect a determined criminal but rather just your average smash 'n grab guys.

 

[GhostlyKarliion]

have you thought about rebar?

a hollow core door should be eaisly reinforced, simply bore out holes in the sides and thread rebar, or even better allthread, through the holes, do the same on the top and bottom, using nuts or pressure clamps to hold them in place, it could even be cut longer so that you could make an indention in the frame and use a shackle and padlock to secure the door shut to the wall

 

[Mr White]

Just post signs all around the exterior that say "This house is a gun free zone" If no one's home, thieves won't bother to break in if they don't think they'll find guns and if someone IS home, .... well, then I guess the joke's on the burglers.

But seriously, a $300 safe will stop most of your smash and grab guys. They want the quick in and out and most likely won't stick around to mess with opening any but the most flimsy of safes.

 

[ilbob]

have you thought about rebar?

a hollow core door should be eaisly reinforced,

doing this will just end up with a stronger door, and the same problem with the hinges, strike plate, and door jams. the weak point in a typical door system is the strike plate and hinges.

 

[chauncey]

I'd recommend:
1. hollow metal door with knockdown metal frame, extra fasteners to the studs, and a "piano hinge". Piano hinge may be difficult to find, so set it as an inswing to make the hinges and bolt harder to get at
2. 5/8" high-impact drywall (aka "blue board") over 5/8" plywood - glue and screw the crap out of it - that will demoralize 'em
3. road plates
4. you can buy metal plates (better ones are shaped like a saddle) designed to protect plumbing pipes for a reasonable price; use these to reinforce the wood studs in areas you think are likely to get abused

remember, that unfortunately short of a safe there is nothing that "they" can't break into with the use of a chopsaw or a sawzall with a lot of blades

 

[oldfart]

It's an exceptional burglar that will take the time to break into a reinforced room. Most are after stuff they can grab and run with and taking time to cut their way through a wall only raises their chance of discovery.
Using scraps that I had on hand, I reinforced a closet to serve as a safe. I used a double layer of 3/4" plywood with an electric wire laced back and forth between the layers. The wire is connected to my burglar alarm which is connected to a very loud horn. If someone wants to, they can use an ax to break through the wall but they'll have a lot of loud "music" to accompany their efforts once they cut that wire.
The door is also made of two layers of 3"4" plywood with the wire between the layers and a motion sensor mounted on the inside of it - also hooked up to the alarm system.
It isn't perfect but it didn't cost a whole lot either.

 

[biscuitninja]

SIP walls with a light steel or AL plate. The door as mentioned with paino hinge and several thicks locks with steel around the frame will do just fine. Trying to kick it down will only frustrate them.
good luck
-bix

 

[Wolfgang2000]

First given the time and equipment you can break into ANYTHING. But as Oldfart stated, most burglars are smash and grab types. The idea is to make it easier to go somewhere else.

1 information security. If they don't know you have guns they won't be looking for them.

2 a good door is nice, but if ti leads to a simple room with sheet rock walls what good is it? However if you have to have a "good door" look at a tornado door. It's designed for storm shelters. It's a steel door filled with concrete and a steel frame. It comes with 2 dead bolts and a twist knob. It's around $600.00.

My first choice would be an alarm system on the house. Even if it's not connected to an agency. Your typical burglar when confronted with a loud alarm and or flashing lights will run just as fast as they can to get out of the area.

 

[Claude Clay]

a cousin in miami has a cougar. following a failed break-in, he washed the blood off the front door; they didn't get any further into the house.
people: the other white meat

 

[BigBadJohn]

My cheapo setup

I took a cheap gun safe and put it in the back of a closet bolted to the floor and wall. The closet door is solid and has two deadbolts, one towards the top and one at the bottom. Because the safe is at the back of the closet ,there's no room to get in with a pry bar. If they can get through the door it would take allot of time to cut their way into the safe. I'm sure a very determined thief could eventually get in if he had enough time. I wouldn't worry about a thief carrying a plasma cutter though

 

[Bitmap]

The steel exterior door with deadbolt mounted with 3.5" #10 screws or better is a start. As for not breaking through the walls, don't bet on it. Sheetrock walls won't stop anyone, especially if the locks on the door are the kind with the key built in. Reinforcing the walls of the room with 3/4" or even 1/2" plywood screwed into the studs will make the walls very difficult to break through and will help reinforce the doorframe.

I would do this in the walk-in closet if possible so that you don't have to worry so much about it looking unfinished. You could just frame in an exterior door to replace the odd size one - be sure to get a 36" wide one to make it easier to get safes into because you will probably get a big one some day. I would also consider mounting the door hinges out so you have more room inside - just make sure the hinge plates have the little locking tabs on them so creeps can't remove the door by pushing out the hinge pins. If you can't find a door like that you can fix it up yourself with a drill and concrete nails.

 

[ctdonath]

Having a small unfinished room suitable for my "cave", I've been mulling over someone's suggestion to string/staple barbed wire between the wall studs before sheetrocking/flooring the room in. Idea is to easily add one more layer of pain/complexity/time to an otherwise normal locked (with suitable hard-to-bash door & deadbolts) room, resisting the smash-and-grab along with a punch-thru-sheetrock entry. Yes, it's not as hardened as a real safe, and it can be breached with tools, but it reduces the penetration odds an order of magnitude or two, while minimizing cost with the bonus of a room-sized "safe".

Just to boost security and ambiance (without going to lining with welded steel), I may consider 3/4" hardwood flooring - extended through all surfaces.

Thoughts?

 

[ilbob]

Having a small unfinished room suitable for my "cave", I've been mulling over someone's suggestion to string/staple barbed wire between the wall studs before sheetrocking/flooring the room in. Idea is to easily add one more layer of pain/complexity/time to an otherwise normal locked (with suitable hard-to-bash door & deadbolts) room, resisting the smash-and-grab along with a punch-thru-sheetrock entry.

My suggestions.

1. Make the door a lot harder to break down. It is amazingly easy to kick in most doors. Most interior walls are just partitions. Reinforce the stud wall frame around the door. maybe laminate a piece of sheet metal (not plate - maybe 12 gauge) between a couple of 2X4s to make it stiffer and harder to cut. Use an exterior steel door. Put longer screws into the hinges and other hardware. Several companies make jam reinforcers made of metal that make it fairly difficult to kick in a door. Use multiple deadbolt locks. Drill holes in the edge of the hinge side of the doors for screws that go into the frame so that even removing the hinge pins does no good. Door should open out for maximum strength.

2. Make it harder to get through the walls. Use screws and glue rather than nails to secure the floor and ceiling plates, and the studs. Some kind of metal in the stud cavities makes it harder to get through. Rebar or heavy wall pipe is relatively cheap and tends to rotate in place when someone tries to cut it. An interior layer of some kind of metal mesh, followed by a layer of plywood then drywall. Lots of glue and screws.

3. make it harder to get in through the floor and ceiling. a layer of hardware cloth between two layers of plywood may do the trick. make the supporting structure from laminated beams rather than 2x stock or wood i-beams.