I am currently shooting reloaded 38 caliber cases in my S&W 586. I'm using a 148g HBWC over 3.5g of Winchester 231. I am looking to use 357 cases and my question is what is a good starting point for the powder that I have if I use regular small pistol primers instead of Magnum primers? Thanks in advance.
Reloading 357 cases with Win 231 and 148 HBWC
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rperyam
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I'm curious about your results with this powder. I'm using loads of 2.8 grains of Bullseye or 2.3 grains of Trail Boss. My intent is just a low cost, mild shooting load for small J frames and larger K frames. Both meet these requirements and are just fun to shoot. My grandkids have on and prefer these loads over their. 22s. I've used these same loads in 357 brass with the same results.
Are you looking for plinking loads, self defense, hunting small game? What size gun, small pistol, rifle? Like I said, I'm just curious, we like the old revolvers and light loads.
Are you looking for plinking loads, self defense, hunting small game? What size gun, small pistol, rifle? Like I said, I'm just curious, we like the old revolvers and light loads.
I have been doing exactly this with my 357 Blackhawk. I ran test loads based on Hodgdens data on their website for 357 magnum.
I found the minimum charge was the most accurate. I think that was 3 grains, but check to be sure. The max was 3.4 grains or so and the groups opened up. I used 357 cases and regular SPP. For load five the test group is the 4 at the bottom. The top 4 were off hand so I wouldn’t count them for much.
I found the minimum charge was the most accurate. I think that was 3 grains, but check to be sure. The max was 3.4 grains or so and the groups opened up. I used 357 cases and regular SPP. For load five the test group is the 4 at the bottom. The top 4 were off hand so I wouldn’t count them for much.
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I'm getting back into 357 Mag reloading so I have been going through my records and literature on the 357. Unfortunately I cannot remember where I read it in the last 2 weeks, but one source related using the same load data for 357 wadcutter target loads as the 38Special (I don't keep questionable "advice", celebrity opinions,magazine articles or forum threads, just reliable sources so I would trust the 38 data in 357 suggestion. Of course I would test a few making sure they function properly and all bullets exit the barrel,)
GeoDudeFlorida
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The Hodgdon data online says 3.0-3.4gr but also specifies use of a magnum primer.
AJC1
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I would not be surprised if you get a little more velosity out of a charge of bullseye or tg with a mag primer, but a standard will still give complete clean combustion. A tenth or two more powder and a standard primer will work equally well imo.
With standard primers, 3.0 grains of W231 behind a 148 gr HBWC may be a little light but should be just fine with the 3.4 gr W231.
Just remember, driving HBWC too fast may cause the skirt to become separated from the rest of the bullet. The skirt may then become lodged in the barrel. So, careful shooting and work up is necessary.
I feel Hornady is just lazy and with 357 Magnum just uses the same primer for all their testing. Magnum primers are not necessary to ignite W231 but it has no ill affects either if the loads are within published limits.
At the low end for 357 Magnum load, it will probably have a smidge more powder than the same bullet/velocity combination in 38 Special due to the larger case volume once the bullet is seated.
I have also found when shooting low power loads for optimum accuracy, the publish data and what is needed to prevent a bullet stuck in the barrel are not the same. To get Titegroup to drive a 148 HBWC out of my 4" and 6" S&W K-frame revolvers, I had to exceed the publish load data on the powder container. And even then, the velocity of my loads then barely matched the minimum velocity posted on the printed data.
My "over charged" 148 HBWC loads were well within the loads for bullets such as BBWC bullets and not anywhere near maximum for the cartridge.
The point is, working at the low end of powder charge data requires similar vigilance as working with maximum loads. But, the things to look for will be a bit different.
.38 Special
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I like 231 and have burned a bunch of it in .357 cases with Hornady's 148 HBWC. Three grains is a great "minimum" load, and I have never used a Magnum primer with it.
That’s what I followed. The fifth charge above was 3.4 grains. I corrected it above.
Mr_Flintstone
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From Winchester #15 … magnum primer not required. I guess Hodgdon changed that sometime
The only reason I can possibly imagine for using a magnum primer w/ 231 is to drive the bullet
out of the case/firmly into/sealing the throat before the powder charge really gets going.
As to MIN powder charge w/ a pure lead HBWC -- whatever gets it out of the barrel with
managed/minimal muzzle pressure to avoid deforming the skirt on exit.
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out of the case/firmly into/sealing the throat before the powder charge really gets going.
As to MIN powder charge w/ a pure lead HBWC -- whatever gets it out of the barrel with
managed/minimal muzzle pressure to avoid deforming the skirt on exit.
.
Jim Watson
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I think Hodgdon just figured that .357 Magnum is a Magnum and anything in a Magnum ought to have Magnum primers.
Leading to lighter wadcutter loads than with .38 Special. Kind of like their 1.200" .45 ACP roundnose.
If I wanted .357 wadcutters to avoid the .135" of fouling that annoys some, I would use standard primers and about 4 grains of HP38. Note that this is a Hodgdon book load for .38 wadcutters.
Leading to lighter wadcutter loads than with .38 Special. Kind of like their 1.200" .45 ACP roundnose.
If I wanted .357 wadcutters to avoid the .135" of fouling that annoys some, I would use standard primers and about 4 grains of HP38. Note that this is a Hodgdon book load for .38 wadcutters.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Yeah I thought it was kinda weird Hodgdon saying to use magnum primers when one of the selling points of W231 has always been that it lights easy. It’s like bragging about your company’s tires having a smooth ride then telling people to underinflate them to avoid stiffening the ride. ????
Armorer 101
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Hodgdon posting says 40K pressure on the load at 6 - 7.1g, go read the load data again, the problem is magnum pressure, not ignition. 231 has a very, vey steep pressure curve.
AJC1
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I'm not buying that pressure on the primer is any kind of issue. Only deformed primers in pistol I've ever seen are federal. They are well known to be soft.
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