Reloading for the Garand

[Bang!]

Fortunate to recently buy a Garand. Really like holding history in my hands!

Goal at the moment is to safely shoot it. Keep all fingers and not bend the op rod. Researching all things Garand and could use some help on the reloading portion. Read the previous reloading threads here on THR. Any advice on books (to include Garand specific reloading) to get? Seems the most popular powder is IMR or H 4895. Don’t have either of those but I do have IMR 4064, which seems to be the second most posted powder. Other powders mentioned, and I have, are Varget, BL-C(2), and IMR 8208XBR. Close on the burn chart, and that I have, to IMR 4064 is TAC and IMR 4166. Any experience with these powders?


The bullet I have on hand is the Hornady FMJBT 150gr. Have 200 of those and three pounds of IMR 4064. Plan to start with those. The most common starting load I see posted for this combo is around 46gr to start. Any load I’ve worked up in the past has started with at least two sources in black and white. Have never made a load off internet post. Not sure about this.

Found Master Po’s site.

Would appreciate advice on loads, source materials, and experiences. And anything else important to know as I start?

Also have Garand specific, new manufacturer commercial ammo inbound and will fire that first.

Thanks.

 

[badkarmamib]

Quick internet search has this image for Hornady Garand data. Have referenced it a lot, as I am hoping to have a Garand in my hands in the next couple of weeks! Also, forums suggest that H335 burns too fast to cycle the action, FYI.

 

[forty_caliber]

I used my M1 NM as my primary hunting rifle for many years back in the day. When my eyesight was better, I could shoot the wings off a fly at 1000 yards with the old girl. . She sleeps in the safe most of the time now.

I never ran anything very hot through it. Always kept to midrange power loads and I never used anything but IMR-4895. My rifle always liked heavier bullets best...175-180 grain. There is a small hole in the barrel where gas escapes to operate the piston...KEEP IT CLEAN and free of debris for best results. The operating rod springs tend to loose their OOMPH over the years I would locate a replacement. It's also a good idea to have a spare "gas cap" on hand as these tend to get lost or leak.

.40

 

[rg1]

I recommend a Headspace gauge such as Hornady's Headspace Gauge Set to measure how much you push the shoulders back when sizing. Garands and mine can have long chambers. As much as .008" longer than zero so sizing back to zero will cause case stretching. Measure your new factory Garand ammo and measure the cases after firing to see how much they expand forward. Only push shoulders back .003-.004" when sizing for your Garand. Also do more checking for case stretching shooting in a Garand. Hornady 150 FMJ's are good shooting bullets in a Garand. Older Hornady data listed an oal at 3.260-3.262" but the new data has the oal at 3.185" which puts the cannelure at the case mouth if you want to crimp. I've shot them at both oal's in 3 Garands and they feed and function fine at both lengths. I've only used IMR 4895 but 4064 is highly used in loading Garands. Have fun with your new toy! Just to add, Garands take grease for lube in the right places.

 

[Rod47]

Google Master Po's Reloading. Much info

 

[Random 8]

You are on the right track with IMR 4064 from 45-47 grains with the 150 Hornady. I recommend seating this bullet to the cannelure. I run it over 47 gr with a SB LR primer and it is very accurate, and closely mirrors LC M2Ball point of impact, which is important to me as I shoot a few matches that still issue ammo.

I do occasionally shoot a 168HPBT (Hornady) over 46 of IMR 4064. This load is extremely accurate in my rifle, is one of "the" loads digested from the long-time Garand shooters on CMP forums, reliably cycles in my rifle even when it gets hot and dirty.

The 150 gr load is interpolated, not from "book" data specific to the M1. The 168 load is within Hornady's listed load range. I'm loading both in HXP military brass.

And they eat brass, so I wouldn't use anything expensive such as Lapua or Nosler. Check your case lengths every loading and trim appropriately. They stretch.

I would caution against using BL-C2. I tried it at 46 grains per Hornady data with a 168 and got audible hangfires and a bent op-rod. This was in very cold conditions.

 

[1KPerDay]

Most important things to know IMO:

You must full length resize, and I recommend sizing so the case gauges to the lower step of a wilson type case headspace gauge.

I gauge every case after sizing; some cases have more spring back than others and need a second trip through the sizing die, turned in a little more, until they all gauge properly.

You must seat primers below flush. If I had a choice I would use the "harder" military type primers (which some say aren't harder or thicker at all, just less sensitive), but as long as you seat them at lease .005" below flush standard CCI LR primers should be fine.

You must use a garand approved bullet weight/powder combo, which you can see above. Old timers will aver that X military load during the X war was X weight bullet with X powder at X fps, but I personally choose to not beat my rifles to death or chase max velocity with this system. Most will tell you that you should stay at or below 168 grain bullets at or below 47.5 grains of H or IMR 4895 (and IMO that's the MAX for a 168). Most guys I've spoken to load about 47 grains under a 150 or 168. You will note that according to Hornady that is over max. But that has been the standard load for a lot of years.

I've shot a lot of 44.6 H4895 under a 168 Nosler CC and a lot of 46.2. Can't tell any accuracy difference but I'm not much of a rifle shooter and mostly shoot in multigun.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I used to shoot a nice Garand a while back.
Mysteriously, after about every 8 rounds it made this loud ping or pang sound and my empty clip flew out of the gun!
Very odd, but somehow convenient.

 

[Charlie98]

My standard load I've been loading for my M1 is 47grn IMR4895 and any 145-150grn bullet... I've been loading that for almost 30 years. It's not a barn burner, but it's safe for the action and cycles it 100%. I would probably not go beyond IMR4064 without an adjustable gas plug, particularly if you go up in bullet weight.

As an aside, I has a leftover can of H4895 I wanted to get rid of... not wanting to go through the whole load development thing for 3/4# of powder, I just dropped the charge 1grn and loaded it up for the Garand. With one grain less powder, all else being equal, I got higher velocity with H4895 compared to IMR4895.... so they are not the same powder, for sure.

 

[mdi]

When I first got my Garand I started with the same components you chose. I also had some 147 gr pulls and a bunch of HXP brass that I had shot. I just wanted to get used to reloading for the Garand as the only other semi-auto rifle I reloaded for was an SKS, which was sloppy enough to feed and shoot anything near 7.62x39. I found Master Po's site but the loads seemed a bit high to me so I considered them as max. I mainly used data fro my Hornady "Garand section". I have never had any problems "bumping shoulders" or sizing, I just F/L sized with my RCBS 30-06 dies and I seated bullets to the OAL specs of the bullet manufacturere (the pulls were seated to Hornady specs).

The only problem I've had was with "upper Garand" loads (155 gr A-Max, w/4064). When I started reloading for my semi-auto I figgered I needed a case gauge. I had one heck of a time getting brass/cartridges to fit the gauge. I tried a few different sizing methods. ground the face on a shell holder, ran the ctg through the die 3 or 4 times, and bought new dies. Nothing worked. I went to the CMP forum and asked there, one old timer asked "do they fit the chamber?", and when I tried them, yep they fit. I started shooting some of my "too long" handloads until one day I noticed brass marks on my OP Rod handle. It seems the brass was hitting the OP Rod on it's way out, dinging the rim about .008"-.010". I put the case gauge away, somewhere, and that was about a thousand rounds ago...

 

[1KPerDay]

Only issue I have with my case gauge is the rims get mangled after a couple of firings and don't want to enter the gauge. But if you press them in with a piece of wood or similar and out with the front of another case it still works fine.

 

[Jeff H]

Haven't shot my Garand in a couple of years since I've been into pistols. I still have a 30cal can full of HPX ammo to burn through, but I am saving all my brass, I have quite a bit now. Also got a load of pulled 147 gran bullets and I have a sealed 8# of IMR 4895 So, I'm all ready whenever I get back into rifle shooting.

I bought the Garand partly for nostalgic reasons and because I wanted to get one before the supply dried up. This will never be a high volume shooter for me. I bet that 8# of powder lasts me many years. That is close to 1200 rounds.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The cmp forum is an oasis of garand info.
On a unrelated topic, I suggest a garand gear ported gas plug. Both my garands run 'em, softer shooting, smoother cycling and they don't beat the action to death.
He also has some real good garand info on his site.

 

[brasscollector]

I had much better accuracy from my garand seating the Hornady 150fmjbt to the 3.24" OAL, ymmv.

 

[Elkins45]

I’ve been shooting my Garand with 200 grain cast bullets using a below normal load of a powder normally regarded as too slow for the M1. Some folks on Cast Boolits spent a good deal of time working out the combination that gives reliable function but safe op rod speeds.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Quick internet search has this image for Hornady Garand data. Have referenced it a lot, as I am hoping to have a Garand in my hands in the next couple of weeks! Also, forums suggest that H335 burns too fast to cycle the action, FYI.


View attachment 829462

Over the years, I've shot a lot of H-335 W/ 150 grain bullets in my Garands. 45-46 grains. Works fine. Only downside, the powder gives quite a bit of muzzle flash. Loads were accurate with 150 SP bullets. H-335 would not be my first choice, but it works if you already have some on hand and want to try it.

Just FYI, Uncle Po's site gives H-335 data up to 49.0 grains. WAY TOO HOT, you will blow primers. Been there done that.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

About using burn rate charts for choosing powders, the charts will tell you which powders are faster or slower but not How Much faster or slower they are.

The following is just what I do and have learned but loading for my M1 over the years.

As everyone knows the powder used during WWII for 30-06 M1 ammo was IMR4895. Of course today's IMR4895 is slightly different but it and H4895 are still very good choices.

I have used and can recommend both 4895 powders and AA2495 which was designed to mimic the pressure curve of IMR4895. Those 3 powders will allow you to develop replica 30-06 ammo for your Garand.

TAC is another great choice for the M1 and adds a copper fouling preventative agent to the powder which can never hurt IMO.

While IMO 4064 is a little slower than the powders already mentioned and better suited for the 7.62mm NATO cartridge it is still a consideration for the M1. It may or may not be accurate in your gun. Usually, when it is accurate it is very accurate. Sometimes however your barrel just might not like 4064.

The fairly new 4166 is getting good reports but I have not tried it myself in the M1. According to the charts it falls between 4064 and 4895 so it should be safe for the op-rod.

Just a note, even though a powder falls within the powder speed safe zone and the pressures will be safe doesn't mean it will produce accurate ammo. There are so many different powders because they all react differently in different cartridges and rifles. Powders get a reputation for being good in the 30-06 or the .308 or the .223 because they generally produce accurate ammo over a wide band of guns and components. One powder may be great yet the one next to it on the burn rate charts might be a waste of time. Give the powders associated with accurate M1 ammo a try before all the others that "might" work if you get lucky.

Good luck, Sorry for the long post.

 

[bbqreloader]

Also, forums suggest that H335 burns too fast to cycle the action, FYI.

Let me dispell that myth right now.
Loaded H335 from 41.6 to 42.8, 150gr FMJBT from Everglades at OAL of 3.185. Cycled the action just fine, however muzzle flash until I got to 42.6 and 42.8. Best guess was that just not enough powder in case to burn evenly until I reached the higher load limits i was looking for.

 

[bbqreloader]

Bang, get the Hornady book or at least a copy of that Garand data. I use H4895 and I think I took it to 44.8 gr and was happy with that load. Using the 150gr FMJBT from Everglades also. I do not have the adjustable gas plug, apparently that opens some new doors for powders possibly, stayed stock gas plug on mine. You get yours from CMP?

 

[cfullgraf]

When I was shooting a Garand in Service Rifle competition, my standard load was with H4895 with 150 grain bullets. I had a back up load with IMR4895 which was a bit different than the Hodgdon powder load. Both were loaded to about the same velocity.

There are some nice loads using nominal 125 grain bullets. Just as accurate out to 100 yards as heavier bullet loads with a bit less recoil.

Other powders can work as well but I'd stick to the powders and bullet weights listed in Garand specific published load data.

 

[LRDGCO]

45 grs H4895, Varget, or IMR4064 is a good place to start and shouldn't need but a few grains work up to best. Lots of excellent advice above.

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

Powder: I have used both 4064 and TAC, under 150g projectiles, with success. Prefer TAC only because it meters very precisely (ball or flattened ball powder, vs. stick). For me 46.5g of either, as I recall without looking at my log book.

Others have covered the issue of reloading data sources.

On resizing and case gauge question, I think both approaches work. I know many long-time Garand reloaders take the practical approach (if it chambers OK, it's OK). For whatever reason I am more like 1KPerDay up above - I use a case gauge (and the Hornday comparator tool to do the resizing die set-up). I also use the "military" primers (CCI or Tula).

If my two are any indication, Garands indeed absolutely torture the brass - I spend half of my Garand reloading time just filing away dents and gouges in the rims so I can get them into the shell-holder on the press.

As for "keeping your fingers" - look around on the web for the WWII M1 training films (they're interesting in many ways, anyway). Note that the intended method of loading the en bloc clip, based on the rifle's actual design (bolt does not release until pressure on clip is removed, i.e. when hand/fingers are withdrawing) is quite safe. Of course there is always the fail-safe method using the "blade" of the hand against the op-rod handle - but I have never had a problem using the intended method. Beware ONLY of: the bolt being hung up on the follower, and not truly "locked back". This situation accounts for most unfortunate bolt/finger interactions. Always always check closely to confirm bolt is truly locked back.

Otherwise - enjoy! I don't have as many guns as many on this forum, but I enjoy none more than the M1.

 

[Charlie98]

About using burn rate charts for choosing powders, the charts will tell you which powders are faster or slower but not How Much faster or slower they are..

I have a chart somewhere... I can post it if you'd like... that has powders listed linearly, that is to say in a column by manufacturer, and then in rows by burn rate. It would show, for example, W231 and HP-38 next to each other, not stacked on top of each other, etc. It's a very handy chart, and it really lit the lightbulb in my head over burn rate relationships. Granted, it doesn't rate how powders burn vs each other (i.e. the burn characteristics of ball vs stick, etc) but it really adds another dimension to the question of burn rate.

 

[badkarmamib]

W231 and HP-38

Because they are the same thing, just Winchester puts their brand on one of them.

 

[Charlie98]

Because they are the same thing, just Winchester puts their brand on one of them.

You are missing my point. They are indeed the same powder, but in a traditional list, one is on top of the other... i.e. one is 'slower' than the other.