Remington 20ga ammo corrosive!!!

[ID_shooting]

Mods, please make this thread sticky, at least for a while so people can see it.

The day before dove season opened I bought a case of Remington 2 3/4 20ga 7/8oz 7 1/2 shot from Wally World. Some boxes have brass basses, some have aluminum. These are the green boxes with a dove on one side and a partridge on the other.

I shot about a box worth on opening day, since we though we might go out the next day, and I was feeling lazy, I didn't clean my shotgun, H&R Topper Youth model. Normally this isn't a big deal. Well we didn't go out and the shotgun sat for a couple of days. I finally went to clean it and to my surprise, the barrel had a nice layer or rust in it. That has never happened before. Well, a good scrubbing with some oil and Hoppes and I got rid of that.

At first I thought it was the AC we have running that might have put some extra humidity into the air so I checked the rest of my guns, nope, no rust. I have been checking it every couple days since, and no rust what so ever.

Well, the other night we went out again, this time I only fired a few rounds, 10 maybe. I only let the shotgun sit over night. Sure enough, the barrel was starting to rust on the inside again. Needless to say, I scrubbed it down and now it should be fine but I will continue to watch it.

The only thing I can come up with is that Remington got cheep and is using some corrosive powder and primers in their light game loads.

Since I know alot of us don't clean every time we go out, IF YOU HAVE BEEN USING THEM, CHECK YOUR SHOTGUNS!!!

 

[mete]

What has Remington said about this ??

 

[ID_shooting]

I just got off the phone with them, they talked abou the mixed bases and offered to replace them for that, but the disavowed any knowledge about using corresive powder or primers. He did take my name and address though. Not sure what for.

 

[Third_Rail]

Hm... this after I just bought 300 rounds of Remington bulkpack. I've never had any problems with them, but dang is that a strange problem you're getting!

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Sure its not just the cheap shotgun?

 

[dfariswheel]

NO American ammo maker uses any corrosive ammo, and hasn't since at least WWII.

As far as I can determine, corrosive powder isn't even made in American anymore, and hasn't been since around WWII.

It's possible some foreign makers, somewhere, may still use corrosive powder, but even that's unlikely.

The hard fact is, steel gun bores can and WILL rust, and all it takes is a sudden change in humidity, or who knows what.

I can guarantee you that Remington does NOT use any corrosive powder.

Sorry to tell you this, but a rusty bore is your fault. You just failed to clean and maintain your gun.

The fact that you got away with it before is just that....you got away with it.

This time you didn't.

 

[ID_shooting]

"Sure its not just the cheap shotgun"

"Sorry to tell you this, but a rusty bore is your fault. You just failed to clean and maintain your gun.

The fact that you got away with it before is just that....you got away with it.

This time you didn't"

Thanks for calling my shotgun a cheap POS and me a loser, appriciate it guys

Anyway, the facts do not support these claims from a logic point. The only variable that changed is the ammo. No matter what anyone says about use or non use of corrosive ammo, if I shoot it in this shotgun, it rusts, if I shoot any other brand (federal historiccally) it doesn't.

 

[dfariswheel]

Sorry to come on too strong.
I typed that one while I was in a hurry. Again, my apologies.

I have no answer why a specific brand of ammo would cause your gun to rust, but I am sure that no American ammo maker uses corrosive powder or primers.

 

[Dave McCracken]

It takes little sometimes for rust to appear. A couple things...

A wipedown after each shooting session, even if one is going back the very next day is a darn good idea.

Corrosion starts microscopically. Each molecule of iron oxide builds on the last one. Probably your shotgun had some invisible corrosion and it just made it past the sight threshold recently.

Some cleaners/lubes like SLIP 2000 claim they leave a thin barrier to rust. Oil works also.

There's no corrosive powders around in domestic ammo, but some powders are dirtier than others. Red Dot, for instance, leaves more ash than Clays. Dirt gives rust a starting point in that most is hydroscopic, attracting and holding water.

Best thing, clean religiously after shooting.....

 

[Preacherman]

A quick question - have you fired steel shot through your barrel? I have encountered "regular" shotguns that had had the inside of the barrel "scored" by steel shot. When not cleaned immediately after firing, even with regular loads, rust was much quicker to set in than before the steel shot. Just a thought...

 

[ID_shooting]

Preacher, nope, no steel ever through this gun, it is capable of it, but never been done. My buddy that was with me, shot a few of the shells and his SKB OU did the same thing.

I really have no clue what is causing it, I never had this trouble with anyshotgun before shooting these shells

 

[Third_Rail]

Here's a test. Remove the powder, wad, and shot and then fire JUST THE PRIMER at a nail on a board. Leave it in the open, and drive a new nail in next to it, marking which is which.

If the nail exposed to the primer rusts, you have an answer about the primers, at least.

 

[pete f]

Myth one, powders are corrosive. They are NOT. smokeless powders have no water attracting salts or residues left in the barrels.

Primers may be corrosive in that the salts left behind after firing contain salts that absorb moisture in the air and cause corrosion that way.

I do not know for sure about the ammo you were shooting, but Remington and any other American ammunition manufacturer never uses these corrosive primers in the modern manufacturing process because they are considered pollutants and the EPA does not allow them to make them. However, this leaves an interesting issue. This ammo may be foreign made and marketed under the Remington name, just like the knives. This would be the biggest likelyhood under the conditions you mentioned.

If you think that you have some ammo that is corrosive. the easiest way is to try different ammo in the same gun. shoot the rem stuff. let the gun sit over night or two and then push a few patches thru the bore and look for rust. take one of the patches and add a little vinegar to it. if it is indeed rust it will turn black as ink in just a few seconds. if it is some sort of filler or debris from the shell it will not turn color. try this with your budies SKB too. then after keeping the patches in a zip lock. geta stainless bore brush and scrub the inside of the bore completely using Hoppes or solvent of your choice. cleaning and dry the barrel and then swab lightly with tri flow or break free as a rust preventer till you can shoot again.

on day of second trip to the range, push a clean patch thru the barrel and examine the patch for new rust, etc. making sure the barrel is clean fire another ten rounds or so of say winchester AA or federal gold metal. then let the barrel sit for two nights. No rust, blame remington, rust, then wonder about the storage situation, gun handling in the house, etc. Then and only then would i contact remington and tell them you think you have some how gotten ahold of some damaged goods.. if you get rust. I would call Remington and ask if they would like the case back. I am sure they will buy it from you and pay the purchase and frienght of new ammo.

 

[ID_shooting]

interesting tests, I may try them as well some day if I have time, but for now, I will just shoot what I have left and clean up after every session then try a different brand.

The intent of this post was not to blame Remington, but rather make ofthers aware of my expirience so in case somone else had the same issue, they could check.

I have faith that Remington would not knowingly put out a damaging product, and I am certain they would stand behind it, in fact they did offer to buy it back, kudos for them. I told the guy not too worry as the case won't be around long enough to worry about. In fact in my many dealings with them directly, I can only think of one bad instance, but that is a whole other story.

 

[berettashotgun]

PETE F called it- primers, not powder. Foreign mfg primers or possibly the entire shell. My only question- I buy the nitro STS lead shot just so I have somee hulls to use on the ducks and dove I hunt in a wetlands area. They were only $3.50 per or something like that- I didn't know it got any cheaper than that. So the basement price shells gave someone troubles imagine that. I use CLP wipes to swab the bore out each time I shoot, also great at removing sunflower plant sap.

 

[Scoupe]

Pete hit the nail on the head. It's not the powder per se, and mercuric primers just aren't used anymore. There's something else (or serendipitous chain of somethings) going on to create the proper condtions for rust formation that quickly. You're conclusion to just clean the piece well after each session is your best course of action.

 

[thales]

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If you bring a gun in from the cold into a relatively warm, humid room, condensation can form readily. A gun case won't prevent it reliably. If the gun has been fired, there is not likely to be anything to protect the bore from moisture. If there is any scuffing in the bore there is a likely place for rust to start.

I'm a bit puzzled by the mixed case heads; I've never seen that in Remington factory ammo. Do the aluminum heads have the Remington headstamp? Did someone maybe swap out some cheap imports or reloads into the box somewhere in the supply chain?

A once-over with something like a long bore swab or bore snake will only take a minute and will go a long way toward preventing a recurrence.

Just my two centibucks.


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[ID_shooting]

well, I found out why Reminton wanted my address. I have cool new Remington hat

 

[MAG55]

Shotgun corrosion

Anyone interested in a posssible explanation ? This happened to me.

I shoot and hunt in South Carolina in a climate which is both hot and humid. I was using my reloaded 12 ga shotgun shells to shoot skeet both before and after dove season. It happened that I wasn't always able to clean my shotgun after a skeet session but never had any rust problem.

The first day of dove season (a saturday) was a bust, only shot three times. Figured I didn't need to clean the shotgun and besides I was going out again on monday. Shot once and my shotgun jammed, couldn't eject the shell. Finally broke it apart to find a veneer of rust on the inside chamber only. I had been using the same reloaded shotgun shells as the skeet sessions so why did the the rust appear.

Talk this over with a local gunsmith and he though that moisture had
"sweated" out of the barrel. As a demonstration he passed the flame from a propane torch over his anvil and produced a film of moisture. But what he actually done was to condense the torch combustion products, water on the anvil.

After reflection on the matter, what I think happens is that I get my shotgun HOT during a skeet session and the moisture can't condense. Three shotgun shells of dove hunting over 4-6 hours doesn't get the shotgun hot so the vapors can condense producing rust. Remember that carbon dioxide is also produced which is corrosive when dissolved in water aggravating the situation.

Hunted dove over this last Labor Day weekend. The birds flew, shot about 1 1/2 boxes all mostly very late in the afternoon. My shot gun got hot. Didn't clean it before going out on Monday and it didn't corrode over the weekend.

Lastly, I wonder if reloaded shells are particularly bad for corrosion. Having been already fired, they may be charged / saturated with moisture.

MAG55

 

[thales]

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Mag55; Brilliant!


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[No_Brakes23]

When I got a bunch of Remington #4 and #1 buck and realized it was crapping the white pellets all over the place, (And a quick call to my dad confirmed that this is a trend,) I quit buying Remington shotshells.

Weird feeding a Remington shotty with Winchester shells, (Although truth be told, more Federal than anything else goes through there.)

 

[zuiko]

Makes sense MAG, just like driving your car short distances only will rust out the exhaust system many times faster than if you drive it normal distances.