Hello everyone I have a question as I'm looking into getting a reproduction revolver one with an octagonal barrel to match my 45-70 CBA so I would like it in 45 colt I've only looked around online I love the looks of the conversions of the 51 navy and the 58 new army I've never shot a repro revolver and I'm understanding they only shoot BP loads so here is my question is there any out there that shoot smokless powder? If I have to settle for BP I will ive had inline muzzelloaders for hunting but I've never been a fan of the hassle of cleaning them everytime I fire a round through it
Reproduction revolvers
- Thread starter 45lover
- Start date
- Status
ontarget
Member
There are MANY options currently available that use modern center fire ammo.
Look on the Uberti, Ruger, and Pietta websites. I bet you can find at least 50 different offerings that will fit your needs.
I'm pretty sure Uberti has some with octagon barrels.
Look on the Uberti, Ruger, and Pietta websites. I bet you can find at least 50 different offerings that will fit your needs.
I'm pretty sure Uberti has some with octagon barrels.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The factory conversions are safe for any standard pressure factory load.
There are also new manufacture 1873 repro's with octagon barrels.
There are also new manufacture 1873 repro's with octagon barrels.
Choctaw
Member
Cimarron imports a Pietta single action called the El Malo. It comes with an octagon barrel.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020499813
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020499813
Last edited:
I've seen the el malo I would like an open top or atleast one with a longer barrel
skeeterfogger
member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Messages
- 1,280
Remington 1858.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,283
45lover
Definitely something like a Pietta Remington NMA with a conversion .45 Colt cylinder would get you the cartridge you want along with an octagon barrel. If you prefer an open top conversion then check out the Kirst Catridge Konvertor for the Uberti or Pieta copy of the Colt Model 1860 Army, also available in .45 Colt.
Definitely something like a Pietta Remington NMA with a conversion .45 Colt cylinder would get you the cartridge you want along with an octagon barrel. If you prefer an open top conversion then check out the Kirst Catridge Konvertor for the Uberti or Pieta copy of the Colt Model 1860 Army, also available in .45 Colt.
Thank you all for your input I would rather have the 51 navy conversion but I cant find anything about it shooting modern smokless ammo and I'm not gonna be the first to find out so I'm leaning towards the 58 new army conversion assuming it shoots smokeless powder
Dave Markowitz
Member
This is my Pietta 1858 Remington that I installed a gated Kirst Konverter in. I have only fired smokeless loads in it, Black Hills cowboy action shooting loads with a 250 grain cast bullet at about 750 FPS, specifically. No problems whatsoever.
I did recently buy some suitable cast bullets and I plan to handload some mild .45 Colt cartridges. Keep in mind that the original .45 Colt was a 250 grain bullet on top of 40 grains of black powder, delivering over 900 FPS. IOW, the original black powder loads were significantly more powerful than CAS loads.
I did recently buy some suitable cast bullets and I plan to handload some mild .45 Colt cartridges. Keep in mind that the original .45 Colt was a 250 grain bullet on top of 40 grains of black powder, delivering over 900 FPS. IOW, the original black powder loads were significantly more powerful than CAS loads.
Last edited:
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,759
45lover,
factory offerings of "conversion" revolvers are modern firearms and fire modern ammo. They are also cheaper than buying a new cap gun and adding a conversion cylinder to it.
The conversion cylinders from Taylor's, Howell and Kirst are designed for smokless loads as well. I've never seen anything that says "black powder loads only" for any of these revolvers or cylinders. It would kinda defeat the purpose of the "conversion".
Mike
factory offerings of "conversion" revolvers are modern firearms and fire modern ammo. They are also cheaper than buying a new cap gun and adding a conversion cylinder to it.
The conversion cylinders from Taylor's, Howell and Kirst are designed for smokless loads as well. I've never seen anything that says "black powder loads only" for any of these revolvers or cylinders. It would kinda defeat the purpose of the "conversion".
Mike
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,283
45lover
Go to Taylors and Company's website where they carry any number of cylinder cartridge conversions (.38 Special), for both Uberti and Pietta built Colt Model 1851 .36 caliber revolvers.
Go to Taylors and Company's website where they carry any number of cylinder cartridge conversions (.38 Special), for both Uberti and Pietta built Colt Model 1851 .36 caliber revolvers.
I have seen them on there I just wish I could find one in 45 caliber
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
1. Do not even think about putting any type of Smokeless powder into a Cap & Ball revolver. Never! You may not like the thought of cleaning Black Powder fouling from a revolver, but I am here to tell you it is a lot easier than most realize.
2. Colt never put an octagonal barrel on the Single Acton Army. While there are modern 'replicas' that have octagonal barrels, Colt never put one on the Single Action Army. They were always round barrels.
Like this:
3. There are conversion cylinders available for most Cap & Ball revolvers. These cylinders are proofed for Smokeless ammunition, so even though the gun may say 'Black Powder Only' on the barrel, it is safe to shoot mild Smokeless loads in these.
Here are the cartridge conversion cylinders offered by Taylors.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/conversion-cylinders.html
This is my EuroArms 1858 Remington that I bought many years ago. A few years ago I added a cartridge conversion cylinder to it.
This particular cylinder is only marketed by Taylors Firearms. It is the only cartridge conversion cylinder for the 1858 Remington that has six full sized 45 Colt chambers. Although I usually shoot it with Black Powder ammunition, the cylinder is proofed for mild Smokeless ammo. Yes, it is more expensive to buy a Cap & Ball revolver and then buy a cartridge conversion cylinder for it than it is to buy a cartridge revolver in the first place. In this case I had bought the revolver so many years ago that adding the cartridge cylinder was like getting a new cartridge gun for a little bit over $200. These cylinders cost a little bit more than that now.
This 'cartridge conversion' revolver leaves the factory as a cartridge revolver. It it based on the historical conversions that were done to the 1858 Remington during the Civil War. However with this model you do not have to buy a Cap & Ball revolver and then buy a conversion cylinder for it. It is a cartridge revolver from the start. The frame is slightly larger than the Cap & Ball replicas, so the cylinder is not interchangeable with the C&B models. This revolver is available in several calibers, including 45 Colt, two different barrel lengths, is proofed for Smokeless ammunition, and they all have octagonal barrels.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/1858-remington-conversion.html
1. Do not even think about putting any type of Smokeless powder into a Cap & Ball revolver. Never! You may not like the thought of cleaning Black Powder fouling from a revolver, but I am here to tell you it is a lot easier than most realize.
2. Colt never put an octagonal barrel on the Single Acton Army. While there are modern 'replicas' that have octagonal barrels, Colt never put one on the Single Action Army. They were always round barrels.
Like this:
3. There are conversion cylinders available for most Cap & Ball revolvers. These cylinders are proofed for Smokeless ammunition, so even though the gun may say 'Black Powder Only' on the barrel, it is safe to shoot mild Smokeless loads in these.
Here are the cartridge conversion cylinders offered by Taylors.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/conversion-cylinders.html
This is my EuroArms 1858 Remington that I bought many years ago. A few years ago I added a cartridge conversion cylinder to it.
This particular cylinder is only marketed by Taylors Firearms. It is the only cartridge conversion cylinder for the 1858 Remington that has six full sized 45 Colt chambers. Although I usually shoot it with Black Powder ammunition, the cylinder is proofed for mild Smokeless ammo. Yes, it is more expensive to buy a Cap & Ball revolver and then buy a cartridge conversion cylinder for it than it is to buy a cartridge revolver in the first place. In this case I had bought the revolver so many years ago that adding the cartridge cylinder was like getting a new cartridge gun for a little bit over $200. These cylinders cost a little bit more than that now.
This 'cartridge conversion' revolver leaves the factory as a cartridge revolver. It it based on the historical conversions that were done to the 1858 Remington during the Civil War. However with this model you do not have to buy a Cap & Ball revolver and then buy a conversion cylinder for it. It is a cartridge revolver from the start. The frame is slightly larger than the Cap & Ball replicas, so the cylinder is not interchangeable with the C&B models. This revolver is available in several calibers, including 45 Colt, two different barrel lengths, is proofed for Smokeless ammunition, and they all have octagonal barrels.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/1858-remington-conversion.html
Last edited:
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
To get an open top, octagon barrel and .45 caliber, it will have to be an aftermarket conversion of an 1851 percussion .44. I've been wanting to do convert this one.
That is a beautiful gun I would love one of them but maybe I will buy one later down the road
Old Stumpy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2019
- Messages
- 1,451
Just to reiterate, the 1858 Remington with a conversion cylinder is perfectly safe to shoot with standard 850 FPS/250 grain loads. The receiver metallurgy is is very probably superior to pre-WW1 nitro-proofed Colt SAA revolvers.
SAAMI maximum for standard smokeless .45 Colt ammunition is 14,000 PSI.
That's well within black powder pressures for most firearms.
SAAMI maximum for standard smokeless .45 Colt ammunition is 14,000 PSI.
That's well within black powder pressures for most firearms.
So if a 58 new army frame would work with smokeless what about the open top 51 navy if I converted a .44 cap and ball with the kirst konverter to 45 colt would it hold up to smokless powder too?
Old Stumpy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2019
- Messages
- 1,451
Since they do make converters for 1851 Navies, it must be generally safe if it is a steel frame Navy.
The Army and Navy revolvers both used the same cylinder frame size, with the Army frame being notched for the larger fore section of the cylinder, as is your Navy .44.
However, I do believe that your Navy is going to loosen up with repeated use, since the barrel wedge and wedge slot are taking the impact, and it is not a solid frame.
I would also suspect that the pressures in an 1860 Army using typical 28 grain black powder loads are less than .45 Colt factory loads.
Personally, I would stick with a Remington .44.
Dave Markowitz
Member
I have a Pietta 1851 .44 Sheriff that I've considered converting to .45 Colt but limit it to .45 Schofield loads. Decisions, decisions....
01KLR650
Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2018
- Messages
- 47
Where did you get the ejector for your Pietta conversion? It looks like Kirst now only offers the Mason type with the spring for the 1858.
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,759
Ok, contrary to popular "misconception" / "perpetuated misinformation", the Colt pattern open top design ( executed correctly) is superior in strength to the Remington pattern. I've explained how/why many times before so I'll skip it here. Suffice it to say that " properly " setup, (which no reproductions were ever done (except by mistake!!) the open top is a most excellent platform for conversion cyls. The most basic exercise of just correcting the arbor length (in all repros except for late model Pietta's) and setting a .002" -.003" barrel/cylinder clearance (endshake for some of you), is all that's needed for this platform to give top performing results as a cartridge gun! And, they won't/can't beat themselves up . . . just by doing such a simple fix . . . . so they behave just as the originals did.
An easy temporary fix is just to drop a washer/spacer of correct thickness in the arbor hole for the end of the arbor to but up against. Then the wedge can be "driven in" (as it is supposed to be) and the barrel/cylinder clearance won't /can't change. (JB Weld can make it a more permanent fix!!)
Mike
An easy temporary fix is just to drop a washer/spacer of correct thickness in the arbor hole for the end of the arbor to but up against. Then the wedge can be "driven in" (as it is supposed to be) and the barrel/cylinder clearance won't /can't change. (JB Weld can make it a more permanent fix!!)
Mike
Dave Markowitz
Member
I got the Remington-style ejector from Kirst when I converted the revolver several years ago. They no longer make it, AFAIK.
NoirFan
Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 671
I have the Uberti factory conversion 1858 in 45 colt shown here. I have fired max charge 45 colt standard pressure published loads with no issues:
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/1858-remington-conversion.html
In fact, I just took it out to the range yesterday. On the plus side, it is a nice handling, accurate handgun. The long barrel and very crisp trigger make it easy to get good hits, and the internals seem to work just fine.
The drawbacks are in some of the external fit issues. First, this gun shipped to me without a front sight. Taylor’s did get one out to me quickly when I contacted them, but then it didn’t fit! The dovetail slot was too big and I had to LocTite the sight in place. Second, the ejector rod assembly is pretty shoddily built. It’s held in place by just one screw, the same one that holds in the loading lever, and will walk out under recoil. Once again, LocTite to the rescue.
It’s a fun gun and I still like it, but there are some issues to be aware of.
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-revolvers/1858-remington-conversion.html
In fact, I just took it out to the range yesterday. On the plus side, it is a nice handling, accurate handgun. The long barrel and very crisp trigger make it easy to get good hits, and the internals seem to work just fine.
The drawbacks are in some of the external fit issues. First, this gun shipped to me without a front sight. Taylor’s did get one out to me quickly when I contacted them, but then it didn’t fit! The dovetail slot was too big and I had to LocTite the sight in place. Second, the ejector rod assembly is pretty shoddily built. It’s held in place by just one screw, the same one that holds in the loading lever, and will walk out under recoil. Once again, LocTite to the rescue.
It’s a fun gun and I still like it, but there are some issues to be aware of.
Hondo 60
Member
Find a gun you like & then contact the manufacturer.
Personally, I'd feel a whole lot better with words from the source rather than a gun forum.
I'm in NO WAY dissing this community.
The people here are top notch!
But info from the maker is lawyer proof
Besides you'll find the gun community to offer
the best customer service you've ever seen.
Personally, I'd feel a whole lot better with words from the source rather than a gun forum.
I'm in NO WAY dissing this community.
The people here are top notch!
But info from the maker is lawyer proof
Besides you'll find the gun community to offer
the best customer service you've ever seen.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
