Revolver wads- Sagebrush products

[mec]

When I ordered wads from The Possible's Shop, they sent Eastern Maine wads for the .44 and Sagebrush for the .36. both are wool impregnated with lubricant and about 1/8" thick being rigid enough to do the job. I just checked out the .36" ones and found they worked as well as the .44s

I fired this two dozen rounds and finished up with another six fired from 30 feet about as fast as I could work the hammer. At the end of the session, the bore was completely free of fouling. the second target fails to show the single round I tossed out of the silhouette altogether. It whizzed by about 3" right of the head at 50 yards.

 

[timothy75]

Nice shootin MEC, but dont lubed wads deaden some of the powder charge? I've had bullets stuck in the barrel when used with cartridges, but never had the problem with C&B revolvers but figured it must exist some what.

 

[mec]

I don't think these will croak the powder in the short term. Not much lubricant there to be forced out of the wad. Over time, It wouldn't surprise me if heat or the pressure of the load might cause some of it to migrate, but I haven't left any loaded with wads for extended periods.

 

[rifle]

I have a sneaky suspicion that powder granuals stuck to the back of wads or lube pills still ignite. On very rare occasions I've had a squib but pretty rare. I guess if a person suspects some powder is being fouled by lube then adding a little more powder would remedy that. Remind me not to challenge you to a duel Mec. Nice shootin Pard. I like those targets. One thing I know. It's good to have a method of keeping the fouling down in the cap&ballers. Before I used wads or lube pills under the balls and just put some lube over the balls I spent more time cleaning the barrels than shooting. I guess the trick is to get some lube under the ball in front of the powder and keep the barrels clean so some good shootin ,like in the pics by Mec, can be done. Those are good pics of the Navy Colts Mec.

 

[mec]

Most of my shooting has been without wads just following the old Samuel Colt instructions. Plenty accurate for six shots but needs the barrel cleaned after every cylinder. Grease (commercial or crisco) over the ball just gums up the revolver and doesnt seem to do a thing about keeping the barrel clean. I, and several others have shot unlubed balls making sure they are big enough to seal the chambers. the outside of the gun and the arbor/ cylinder free-moving, but you have to scrub the bore just the same as if you had overball grease.

The only double ignition weve had in the last three or four years was with a ball that, for whatever reason, had been removed from the chamber and then reloaded all swaged and undersized. The possibility of chain fire would be higher using the hornady .375" balls in a uberti. Some of them are undersized to the point they stick to the loading ram and come back out of the chamber. Same thing with warren-ozark balls which now seem to be wonderfully extinct anyway.

That 61 navy is reliable as heck. It took the usual amount of minor smoothing when new and I deepend the frame to the right of the hammer and made some more clearance from the cylinder. Opened up the sight notch for beter visibility but didn't have to do anything about elevation. sometimes,I hit right on. Yesterday, when I shot these targets, I was shooting a bit low and left.

when I moved back to fify yards, I doped the drop right by aiming eight or ten inches higher but was the shooting to the right until I changed aiming points. I suspect the sights are a reasonably good excuse for that sort of thing.

 

[pohill]

Where does the cornmeal or Cream of Wheat concept fit in - accuracy (by moving the ball higher in the chamber) or cleaning (scrubbing the barrel)?
I used Cream of Wheat or cornmeal when I first started shooting BP, but I didn't know why (someone suggested it).

 

[mec]

the often-published practice of target shooters was to try to give the balls only enough power to reach the target and more or less punch a hole in it. they thought this provided the maximum accuracy. They also thought that compressing the ball way down in the chamber compromised accuracy because of bullet-jump before reaching the rifling.

the bullet jump sometimes has an effect on the accuracy of cartriged revolvers and sometimes not. I haven't tried light loads combined with breakfast food because I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in accuracy. At my level of shooting, I am perfectly satisfied with full loads. Might be a different story if any of these revolvers developed much recoil

 

[rifle]

Good info fer folks Mec. Nice 1861 Navy. What about cap hang ups? Some guns seem to be unfettered with that syndrom and others of the same make seem to have it like a scurge.
I recently had a problem with a gun,1851 Navy, that was dead on shootin pistol ranges. Then I missed a squirrels head at 10 yards. Naturally I tested the gun later(excuse to shoot more) and found the shots going into a wide group. Looked the gun over and came up empty until....I scrutinized the hammer in it's frame recess and found it was flopping from side to side and mostly to the right.
Problem solved with a copper shim on the hammer screw between the hammer and the frame. That stood the hammer up right and got the gun shooting straight and consistant again. I also found that the alignment of the chambers to the bore can change some since the arbor is a loose fit in the cylinder.
The hand spring can at times push the cylinder sideways on the arbor and that shows some cylinder face on the right looking down the muzzle with a little flashlight.
Well....I bent the hand spring toward the hand some so the spring doesn't amke the hand push the cylinder as much. Now the cylinder settles in the "aligned position". Seems to have got the mo-jo back in the guns accuracy.
I think that shooting the gun some and working the action kinda "broke it in" and showed some irregular or loose tolerances. Anywhooo.....the gun shoots well now but....I'd like a better fitting arbor in the cylinder. Larger diameter arbor and...... fer consistancy in the accuracy department all other things aside....reamed chambers that swag a ball equal to or .001-.003 in. bigger than the barrels grooves.
I've reamed chambers of revolvers that just have better accuracy and more consistantly so afterwards.... Example.....1860 Colt Uberti.....tested fer squirrel hunting by shooting small "v's" where small branches Y out. Size about 1-1.5 inch area. Every ball seems like it goes in the same hole shooting 12-17 yards. Hard to pace off the distance to tree branches up in the air....guesstimated range. hee hee
Point is....I think accuracy can flunctuate with these Italian cap&ballers because of the chambers undersized fer the barrels grooves. Every gun I've reamed,all other things aside, the guns get better in the accuracy department. They shoot to the same point of aim all the time....with wads and/or lube pills.....as long as the lube keeps the barrels clean. Back to the subject at hand. Wads.

I'm under the impression that stiff wads or soft wads only work well ifin there's enough lube on them to get that lube sprayed on the barrels walls in front of the powder.
Considereing the stiffness of the wad and the fact that the wad is in front of the powder fouling from the first shot on the "stiffness" plays a small role in barrel cleanliness.
Each wad is in front of the powder fouling so fouling still sticks and gets compressed into the grooves when the next ball comes down the barrel. I don't think the "stiff" is actually "stiff" enough to do much. The fouling from the ball compressing it is too hard.
I think that if the "stiff" is the only thing in there to combat fouling then the balls will always go down a somewhat fouled bore except fer the first one. That is what leads me to surmiss that a wad is not of as much use unless it contains some good lube.
Lube in front of the powder charge seems to coat the barrel walls in front of the fouling and keeps it from adhering to the walls so more of it goes out the muzzle. Ther trick is to get a good lube suspended in something semi solid,like a wool wad or a wax lube pill so it doesn't play havoc with getting mixed in the powder. The wool wad keeps the lube in front of the powder enough as does the lube pill as long as the "recipe is proper.
The wool fibers make the wad proper and the paraffin wax and bees wax make the lube pill proper since the wax holds the greasy lube in suspension until some is released by the heat of ignition. That means that a recipe fer lube to saturate into a wool wad has to have the same properties as a recipe fer lube pills.
Wax that can suspend the lube until the heat releases it. When I was fiddling with recipes I realized that the hardness that paraffin wax exhibits is a good agent to incorporate into a recipe to keep the greasy lube agent out of the powder. I guess I'm getting around to saying that.... the secret is in the lube.
The lube keeps the barrels clean whether it's in a wool wad or a lube pill. It's just all in the lube in my opinion whatever my opinion is worth. hee hee I think a wool wad that fits a chamber and is behind a lead ball will conform to the curvature of the back of the ball from the pressure of the powder ignition and thus will not touch the walls of the barrel much at all. It will be bent to the shape of the back of the ball and be shortened in the actual diameter of it which "was" the diameter of the chamber but when bent to fit the curvature of the ball then is "not chamber diameter anymore". Chamber diameter in the Italian guns runs smaller than the barrel grooves anywhooo.

My reasoning keeps bringing me back to "the lube" as the one and only most contributing factor in a load chain that doesn't foul the bore exceedingly. Of course I've been known to be wrong before. hee hee hee I don't think so in this case though.
That's why I post the "recipe" I've stumbled upon after years of trying this that and the other thing even though my wife "Junk Yard Dog" sells lube pills.. It works. It's simple. People deserve to know the "recipe". hee hee Right? If it helps people shoot better and get a more enriching experience from shooting their cap&ballers I'm glad.
Now I'll have another cup of coffee and zing off into "chore land". Gotta clean the barn some and run the hounds some too. I'm gonna take that 1851 Colt with me just in case.....there are any rabbits about. hee hee I can load er up with the lube pills and leave it loaded until such time as a suculent tasty tender rabitt gets into the sights of that Navy Colt. It fires perfectly fine even if the "lube pills" (or saturated with lube wool wads ,when I use em,) have been in there for days.

 

[mec]

This is one of the ones that handles caps very well . better now that it's been shot a bit and I deepned the groove in the frame to the left of the hammer and relieved it back a bit from the cylinder. It is a good one for fetching dead things:

You are probably right about the lubricant. wads important too though. The commercial wonder wads are way to fluffy to do much good at stopping fouling.

 

[rifle]

Mec, I gotta tell you...you take good pictures of guns. That gun on the rocks is a nice one and the pic is good. I saw that pic of the big ole rabbits and the cap&baller and thought..."there's one guy that would eat good and survive the wilderness if need be". I got a real kick out of that pic. Made my evening. It's good to let people know that their cap&ballers are useful as well as fun and look good. Good to let people know that the capabilities of the guns make them good for other than paper punching and plinking. Putting succulent rabbit on the table makes a round ball,little bit of powder,a cap and a wad an economical price to pay fer a meal. Now what I want to know.....did you get both rabbits with one or two balls?
In the morning I'm going to go up into the barn and crank up the heater and reload some ammo and while at it I'm sure my wife will punch me out some wads to saturate in lube. She likes the loading die wad cutter I got from Buffalo Arms. They stamp out really good felt wads. I have that sheet of felt from that felt place in Cal. but don't know how to describe the texture of the felt. I just got what the woman that runs the company says the "Cowboy Shooters " order for their guns. It's sorta dense and pretty stiff. Works well.

Yer idea about relieving the frame some at the right of the hammer on a Colt is a good one ,I think, to keep caps from hanging up. Thanks fer takin the time to post "The Rabbit Pic". Like I said, made my evening.

 

[frosty]

Sagebrush wads

I purchase those wads in 44 cal at my local Cabelas, and they seem to work pretty darn good...They are noticably thicker, as well as a harder grade of felt, which facilitates easier loading. It seems to me that the wonderwads get caught between the cylinder and loading rod, sometimes. I dont know for sure, but I've been told that there is a scraping action to help keep fowling and lead buildup in the bore. It seems that would be realistic, a thicker, harder felt, combined with the lube. After 2 cylinders at the range, a dry patch passed easily through the bore, without a "catchy" dry feel, which tells me the lube is working good-I do this test in my black powder ctg guns.

 

[mec]

I shot two rabbits on that trip. about 15 yards sitting still and I used two hands so, it wasn't any challenge. The frogs- several of them were a lot closer.