Rifle - stock = pistol?

[Molon Labe]

A buddy of mine lives in Michigan. He was in a public parking lot trading his WASR2 rifle for a standard handgun. His WASR2 did not have a stock on it.

To make a long story short, an LEO came by, detained him, and claimed his WASR2 was a pistol; without the stock, the WASR2 is 3.5" too short. And now that it's a pistol, it must be registered in the State of Michigan (which it was not, obviously).

So is it true that a rifle can magically turn into a pistol by removing the stock?

 

[TexasRifleman]

So is it true that a rifle can magically turn into a pistol by removing the stock?

No, that is not true. You cannot legally make a pistol out of a rifle. It's actually worse than that.

What you make is a Short Barrelled Rifle, an NFA weapon and a felony to possess without a tax stamp.

The Federal law says 16inch barrel and overall length of 26 inches.

Michigan law says:

(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its
construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

Now, that said... if the thing still meets the 16 inch barrel and 26 inch overall length requirement even without a stock what you have made is just a "firearm" from a Federal standpoint. Not a rifle, not a pistol, but a "firearm". Since "firearms" fall into the gray area many states have deemed that they be sold as pistols. The pistol gripped only shotguns are a good example of this. ATF doesn't consider them shotguns, doesn't consider them pistols, just "firearms" and as such they have the same sale restrictions as handguns, not long guns. If under 30 inches it's a pistol in Michigan though.

So if it's between 26 and 30 inches, only Michigan law was broken. If it's less than 26 inches Federal law was broken as well. Sounds like it would be 26.5 inches long if the officer is correct about it being 3.5 inches too short, avoiding a Federal offense by a half an inch.

Also, by removing the stock some other sections of USC 18.922 may be broken, such as the parts count. Not sure on that one.

 

[Pweller]

I don't really know anything about this legally, but why wouldn't this just be considered gun parts, as opposed to a complete gun? It is, after all, a gun that is missing a stock, and not a gun with a sawed off stock or a sawed off barrel.

Probably the cop figures he'll let a judge and lawyer figure it out.

 

[meytind]

The only part of a firearm legally considered a gun is the receiver so what your friend had was a gun, not gun parts.

 

[TexasRifleman]

don't really know anything about this legally, but why wouldn't this just be considered gun parts, as opposed to a complete gun? It is, after all, a gun that is missing a stock, and not a gun with a sawed off stock or a sawed off barrel.

meytind is right. The receiver itself is the firearm, and Michigan law flat out says that any firearm less than 30 inches long is a pistol. End of story.

 

[Zoogster]

No, that is not true. You cannot legally make a pistol out of a rifle. It's actually worse than that.

What you make is a Short Barrelled Rifle, an NFA weapon and a felony to possess without a tax stamp.

I believe Michigan state law considers firearms under 30 inches to be pistols requiring special permits that state requires for pistols.

If the officer said the firearm was only 3.5 inches too short under Michigan law without the buttstock then it was 26.5" and likely has a perfectly legal barrel and overall length at the federal level.
He just violated Michigan law.
Unlawful sale of a pistol under Michigan law may be a felony. If he was only doing to much more lax legal requirements to sell a long gun, he could be in serious trouble.

 

[G19x]

If its manufactured with a stock and then the stock is removed it is illegal (i think)
Since you cant turn a rifle into a pistol.
Now michigan has a goofy law that says if its under 30 OAL but still meets the 16/26 rule it becomes a pistol.
I believe if it was manufactured without a stock and is under the 16/26 rule it was originally registered as a pistol and then its ok, but if he just took the stock off and it is less than 26in it's a SBR and federally illegal.

Now in michigan I would have to wonder if my gun is under 30 OAL but over the 16 in barrel and 26 OAL after I removed the stock, then it is a pistol by MI law and shouldn't get him in trouble...if he had it registered as a pistol.....
Not sure how that one works but my AK folder is a pistol here...

 

[Zoogster]

If its manufactured with a stock and then the stock is removed it is illegal (i think)

No at the federal level it only must be 26" overall with a 16" or greater barrel for a rifle, and 18" for a shotgun.
If it still meets the 26" overall length with no stock and a pistol grip, or with a pistol grip with something sticking off the back to bring it over 26", or a much shorter stock then it is perfectly legal. It just needs to be over 26".
In fact at the federal level there is even a way around that I believe.
Folding or collapsible stocks are measured in the extended position at the federal level. So you can even have a firearm under 26" if it is fitted with a stock that opens to greater than 26" overall. So a firearm that is 20" long, with a 16" barrel with a folding stock that makes it longer when extended would be legal without a SBR tax stamp.
Some states on the other hand measure the stock in the closed position.

 

[G19x]

Ah ok thanks for the clarification. Here in MI we measure everything in the closed position and have no SBR law...we do allow AOW though..
So some super short shotguns are around....
Its all very confusing

 

[Art Eatman]

Offhand, it sounds like the cop got carried away in a fit of nit-picking. His
opinion makes for a problem in disassembly for repair or cleaning, for instance. IMO, the rifle was merely "incompletely assembled" and I imagine a judge would agree.

Looking to the future, gun deals in parking lots are Really Bad Ideas. Easy for observers to conclude that dumbos are planning a robbery or other illegality.

 

[JCisHe]

Right.

 

[Zane]

Under Michigan law, as said before, between 30-26" a rifle becomes a pistol if it can fire in that state. As of January, having an unregistered Michigan Pistol is now a civil offense and is no longer even a misdemeanor. MCL 28.422

 

[kanook]

if he registers it as a pistol, hasn't he commited a crime by converting a rifle to a pistol?

 

[TexasRifleman]

if he registers it as a pistol, hasn't he commited a crime by converting a rifle to a pistol?

If it's longer than 26 but under 30 inches he hasn't made a pistol from the Federal definition, just the states.

What a bizarre law that is.....

 

[G19x]

It's a fun law when you want to lay a loaded folder ak on the floor boards as a pistol...I kind of like it.