Rifled choke in a smooth bore for sabot slugs?

[Snakum]

I have a Remington synthetic 870 HD about which I've been told I could get the 20 inch smooth bore barrel threaded for a choke (comes stock on the Tactical models with the breeching choke/brake), and that I could then screw in a "rifled choke" that would actually stabilize Remington sabot slugs for deer. Anyone know or guess that a small section of rifling would actually stabilize the sabots or BuckHammers enough to be useful?

I like the possibility that I could add up to 50 yards to my whitetail gun by simply screwing a choke into my HD gun. Anyone think it's worth it? Would the "extended rifled" choke really work?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Snakum,

Go to your favorite search engine and look up "paradox gun" and/or "George Vincent Fosbery". You'll discover that the concept has been working successfully since late in the 19th century.

In 1885 the rights to the trade name ROYAL were granted, and in the same year the patents were granted to Holland & Holland for the famous Paradox gun, a shotgun with the front two inches of the barrels rifled. - http://www.hollandandholland.com/history/history2.htm

lpl

 

[Snakum]

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

I was kind of wondering, though, what folk's real-world experiences with the chokes were? I.e. What kind of accuracy might I expect from a 20" smoothbore barrel with the Rem extended rifled tube? Have you had the opportunity to shoot one for groups?

Thanks again.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well... to put it bluntly, more depends on the shooter than on the gun, most of the time, as far as slug groups are concerned. Shooting slugs out of shotguns for sight-in is not exactly a picnic. Especially if the shotgun is pretty light in weight. I just got a Winchester 1300 slug gun (22" smoothbore barrel with rifle sights) for $150 from someone who was getting tired of having his teeth shaken loose, for example.

But fed sabot slugs it likes (and some barrels like some brands of slugs more than others), a fully rifled barrel can do surprisingly well. A smoothbore with a rifled choke tube might not do as well as a fully rifled barrel, but again- fed slugs it likes, it can certainly do well enough to bring home Bambi.

I don't shoot sabots, I stick to rifled slugs (Brenneke KOs) out of smoothbore barrels because that's all I need. And I don't hunt with them as a rule, they are for defensive use only. With rifle sights or ghost rings on a shotgun, I have little trouble keeping Brennekes 'minute of paper plate' at 100 yards. I'll have to let someone with experience with rifled choke tubes shooting sabots weigh in here to tell you what you want to know, though.

Question is, how far do you think you'll need to shoot, and have you tried ordinary (cheaper) rifled slugs at that range?

hth,

lpl

 

[Snakum]

LOL. Yes, it is almost always the Indian, not the arrow.

I'm using the 870 because I don't like stand hunting and my friends who are teaching me deer hunting don't allow folks to stalk with a rifle (wisely, perhaps) due to the relatively small area we'll be hunting. While most of the shooting there appears to fall at 60 yards or so, there will be a few fields that might necessitate a 75 - 100 yard shot.

I haven't tried slugs yet and I'm still using the stock 18.5" HD barrel that came on it. Next weekend I'm going to pick up four or five brands/styles of slug and see what the gun likes totally stock, and try to understand what my max shot attempt should be with the stock 18.5" smooth bore barrel. I don't know what difference the extra 1.5 inches of the 20" smooth bore barrel would make. If I can shoot 'minute of saucer' at 75 yards consistently with one of the slug brands I'd probably just hunt with it as it is this year.

Thanks again for the help. I haven't hunted in a very, very long time and have never really deer hunted. I took a few walks in the woods with a 30-30 as a kid, but never really hunted whitetails.

 

[Fred Fuller]

My grandfather taught me what he called 'still hunting.' In essence, it meant walk one step, carefully and quietly, and stand still for the amount of time three or four or five more steps would take. Use cover as best you can, be very aware of the wind, and work into it when possible, at worst across it.

Learn to look for parts of a deer, not a whole deer- a nose, an eye, an ear, an antler tine, a horizontal line of back or belly where most lines are vertical (trees etc). Working into the sun in the morning or evening, you might see a 'fringe' of backlit hair around part of a deer that will stand out like a halo.

If there's sign that deer are using an area, find a comfortable place and sit tight for a while. Be a tree. Learn to 'suck in' your predatory self and not project what you are into the space around you. Learn to use your peripheral vision to look at animals you spot, don't stare directly at them. Move slowly. Lead with your eyeballs when you turn your head.

If other people are moving around in the area you're hunting, they may push deer out to you. Same thing for dogs that might be hunting deer, or even just rabbits or quail.

Deer lose their minds over pheromones and hormones. 'The rut' is a good time to be in the woods any time of day. Otherwise, depending on weather, morning or evening are apt to be most productive.

Good luck and good hunting,

lpl

 

[Snarlingiron]

Good advice, Lee. I have hunted deer here in Texas since 1962, and have hunted them just about every way possible, from tree stands, to ground blinds, to still hunting. I even hunted with dogs when I was a youngster over in the Big Thicket area in East Texas when that was still legal. I have taken far more deer still hunting than any other method. I took a nice doe year before last while still hunting in a freezing rain. I stopped to scan and saw something sticking out from behind a tree that just didn't look quite right. I looked through my scope and sure enough it was a deer butt. She was hiding behind a tree that wasn't quite large enough. I moved my point of aim to the front of the tree, and when she bolted I got her.

While I have never hunted deer with a shotgun, I am confident that I would have taker her with one if that's what I had. Of the chances that I have had that didn't result in a kill, never once could I blame it on the "arrow".

 

[Snakum]

walk one step, carefully and quietly, and stand still for the amount of time three or four or five more steps would take. Use cover as best you can, be very aware of the wind, and work into it when possible, at worst across it.

... find a comfortable place and sit tight for a while. Be a tree. Learn to 'suck in' your predatory self and not project what you are into the space around you. Learn to use your peripheral vision to look at animals you spot, don't stare directly at them. Move slowly. Lead with your eyeballs when you turn your head.

Yep ... that's what we called "stalking" or just plain "hunting" where I'm from (regional differences in terminology perhaps). And that is also how we hunted rabbits, squirrels, etc. when I was a kid. In the Army I learned it also worked pretty well for hunting people when used with patrol-sized units in heavy cover. Not too good in the desert or in the city, though. LOL.

Learn to look for parts of a deer, not a whole deer- a nose, an eye, an ear, an antler tine, a horizontal line of back or belly where most lines are vertical (trees etc). Working into the sun in the morning or evening, you might see a 'fringe' of backlit hair around part of a deer that will stand out like a halo.

There's a real art to that part of it I think, and it probably will take a lot of practice and experience to get good at it. I've been watching the hunting shows on VS. channel this Summer to get a feel for how deer move, what they look like in cover, etc. It has been a pretty good education on what to look for and what to expect. Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate it.

Hunting this way feels more like "hunting" to me. I'd be bored stupid in a stand all morning. In stalking an animal or still hunting I figure if I don't get off a shot I'm at least out in the woods, enjoying nature, observing and learning, and getting a little exercise to boot. Much more fun for me, personally, even if I never get a round off.

Thanks again for all the help! If I get a deer this year I'll post a pic.

 

[Snakum]

Oh, I saw you're from ther Southeastern part of the state. I'll be hunting in SE NC for a few days here and there. My Army buddy's family has a farm in Duplin Co. and the deer are just thick there now because no one in the family is hunting anymore. He's just left for another tour in the sandbox (his fourth) but his dad says "Come on down any time!". They seem to grow them a little bigger down there than they do out my way in Guilford Co. Should be fun.

 

[VdoMemorie]

Hello Snakum most of todays sabots by big companies are stricktly made for rifled barrels and are made of hard tough material to withstand high pressures and in order for them to release the bullet the moment they exit the barrel they need a good spin from the rifling.
By shooting the newer sabot from a choke tube will not release the bullet due to lack of spin,and the sabot will tag along the bullet down the bullet path destroying accuracy. You stand better chances if you handload slug in wad that have thin petals and will release the slug/bullet the moment it exits the muzzle.
Hope it helps
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

 

[Snakum]

Thanks Vdo.

Yes, most of what I've been able to dig up on the subject points to the rifled chokes, even the extended rifled chokes, not really being worth it as far as shooting sabot slugs. As near as I can tell from reading personal experiences here and elsewhere a smoothbore barrel and rifled slugs is the way to go and are plenty accurate out to 75 yards or more if you learn the trajectories well.

I am hearing that the 18 inch tactical HD barrel is a bit too short, however. It seems some folks feel an upgrade to a 20" or 23" smoothbore might yield enough improvement in energy and pattern to be worth it. Do you guys think the extra 1.5 or 4.5 inches will make enough of a difference in accuracy, pattern, and energy to be worth the cost?

Going to a 20" or 23" barrel I can get one threaded for choke tubes, and I am told there are choke tubes that will really lessen the spread of 00 buck in an HD scenario without making the 'donut' pattern or causing deformation of the shot. I haven't looked into it yet, though. and of course, I'll have to do a lot of pattern tests because every gun/choke combo patterns differently and the factory loads differ quite a bit, as well.

Still trying to make one shotgun and barrel combo do everything ... home defense, deer slayer, and turkey killer. :banghead:

Thanks again for all the help.