Rite of Passage: bought a $120 Police Positive Special

[MatthewVanitas]

As I understand it, you're not a gun buff until you've purchased a Model 10 and an SKS, and bought each for $99 or less (or, preferrably, bought the two as a set for $99). I couldn't quite reach that, but did manage to talk the local dealer down to $120 on a Police Positive .38 Special, with a serial of 178,XXX. Looking at past threads, I think that puts this piece in the late 'teens, right? I wondered what a "fouling cup" would be, but now I see a dimple just above the forcing cone, so I presume that'd be my boy.

It has almost no finish left, but a pleasant patina and very little roughness. Gutta-percha grips have a tiny chip, but otherwise look great. I ran Mr March's Obligatory Revolver Checkout(R), and it locks like the proverbial bank vault, or Mr March's "welded cylinder". The gap is _really_ tight, but I could cleanly (barely) see light through it, couldn't fit a sheet of paper into it. Bore was clean, and chambers decent. SA is a tick heavy but clean, DA a bit heavy but very smooth. Sights are terrible by modern standards, but better than my 1948 Sistema 1911. Can't wait to go put some low-pressure wadcutters through it.

I'm thrilled to have walked in the door and found exactly what I want. I do reccommend DJ's Loan and Sport in Bothell, WA for those of you who are local. Sketchy name, but great selection. Lots of interesting used gear, and they carry some higher-end lever and single rifles. I'm glad to join the ranks of THR-volk who have found a steal on an old .38

Hope the rest of you have similar luck on your vacations. -MV

 

[Gordon]

Start it out with some 148 grain wadcutters. then 158 grain lead. the 130 FMJ non +p load is mellow for the old girl too! Does the cylinder roll to index (bolt drop) with a s l o w cock SA? Most I've found this vintage won't until cleaned or maybe hand "stretched" a tiny bit. Good buy!

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I cock it nice and deliberate, and it indexes just fine. I assume that's a good sign then? Anything else I need to start checking for?

If anyone has a Blue Book or such handy (or can direct me to an online resource), it'd be great to hear if my guess for production date is close.

Any dire warnings as to the shootability of a PPS of this age?

-MV

 

[thatguy]

Tempering of the metal on guns made before 1930 is iffy at best. I stick to mild loads (I mean less than standard factory) in my .38s made in the 1920s and earlier. This M&P from 1916 gets 125 grain lead over 4 grains of Unique.

 

[Old Fuff]

Your "steal" was made in 1919. It will safely handle any .38 Special cartridge that was loaded to standard (not +P or +P+) levels. The sights are probably regulated to POA/POI at 20 yards with standard 158 grain loads. Do however experiment with other mild loads to see if something else works better.

The grips become brittle with age, so I suggest that you buy relatively inexpensive modern replacements made from black plastic, and save the original ones. The gun's appearance will remain the same.

The action is heavy because the mainsprings of that day were made to fire less-then-sensitive primers. You can ease both the single and double actions by slightly narrowing the spring on its sides - but go slow and polish out any remaining file marks. Also the insides may be filled with dry grease and varnish. Remove the grips and soak it in carborator cleaner for a few days, and then relubricate it and you'll notice a difference.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Granted, "steal" is a bit of a strong term, but is it really that bad of a deal?

I bought it as a plinker and novelty, and have no intention of shooting anything more than light target loads through it. Provided it's not going to turn into a grenade when I put wadcutters into it, I don't think $120 is unreasonable. The only other decent full-caliber pistols I've seen in that price range are the Star (bough, shot, sold), and the Makarov (bought, shot, sold). I do have other pistols, so it's not like I'm hanging my hat on this one.

So, I'll just have to take it to the range and then see how I feel about the purchase. I appreciate the help with the serial number, -MV

 

[Cosmoline]

The Police Positive Specials are, IMHO, a real undiscovered treat. Many collectors seem to brush them aside as inferior to the Official Police, yet these same collectors will go nuts over a Detective Special--which is nothing but a cut down PPS.

They aren't as strong as a K frame or OP, but the PPS is one of the all-time great police sidearms. It's light weight, extremely well balanced, and a lot stronger than most people realize. My best one would routinely shoot quarter-size groups of 158 grain LRN .38's at twenty yards. It remains second only to my Sig P-225 as my all-time most accurate sidearm.

The only drawback is the same one shared by all old-style Colt DA's--the action is pretty complex and hand-fitted, making it more difficult to repair than a Smith or more modern Colt. I've found some PPS's with very creaky actions, but others with actions as smooth as silk. The same goes for all old Colts.

If in good condition there's no reason your revolver can't digest a regular diet of the ammo it was engineered for--158 gr. LRN .38 Specials.

 

[Old Fuff]

MatthewVanitas:

You misunderstood me. In this case "steal,†meant that you got an exceptionally GOOD deal. It appears to me that you have one of my all-time favorite revolvers that’s in excellent mechanical condition (which is getting harder to find) and only suffering from finish wear. A lot of complaints about action stiffness can be traced to dried gunk in the lockwork combined with a lack of lubrication. This is an easy condition to cure.

You may notice that the notches in the cylinder are offset, and are machined into the thick web between the chambers rather then under the chamber where the metal is thinnest. Because of this the revolver will stand up to loads that otherwise would not be safe. This is not cause to start using +P ammunition, but it does give you an unexpected extra in the safety department. It is interesting to note that over the years Colt sanctioned the use of any ammunition that could be used in their larger framed Army Special or Official Police revolvers as satisfactory for use in the Police Positive Special and Detective Special.

I haunt gun shops and gun shows looking for deals like you got, but seldom find them. I think you will be very satisfied with what you bought.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Oh, thanks for the clarification Fluff. I thought at first that you meant that I was overly optimistic to think that I'd gotten a good deal. I was starting to doubt my luck.

Cosmoline: the lightness and balance are what drew me to the PPS. I have small hands, and a liking for light and graceful weapons. I almost bought a 1917 .45ACP for the same reason; the modern 625 seems to have twice the bulk.

One question IRT grip: my DA revo experience is limited, but it seems that the most comfortable and natural-pointing grip I can get on the PPS leaves my pinky off the grip (and resting under the butt, as though the finger were a shelf). I've tried "choking up" a little on the grip in order to get all three fingers wrapped around, but then it puts my trigger finger at an akward angle. Does anyone else have that issue with the smaller-gripped DA revolvers?

Thanks for all the great advice so far. I'll be sure to remove the grips and check for gunk. Take care, -MV

 

[Cosmoline]

I always keep my little finger off the grip, and use it to keep from "riding up" the thin frame in more rapid fire. Seems to work well, though I don't know that the Ayoobs of the world would ever sanction it I like the PPS grip because it lets me get a really deep hold on the revolver, well into my palm. I much prefer this to having to stretch my stubby fingers over some coke bottle grip from the 1960's.

If you take the side plate off to check for rust and lube things up--just make sure to do it on a clean table with a white surface. I tried doing it on a log and ended up losing track of some wee bits of metal it took me hours to find. I'd suggest some CLP in measured amounts on the springs, and q-tips for cleaning. Don't try to take them apart your first time in.

 

[Old Fuff]

MatthewVanitas:

Send a P.M. to Paul "Fitz" Jones, who is one of our Moderators and explain your problem (hands are too large for regular grip). He has, or had, grips for the Police Positive Special that were extended at the bottom. Be sure to specify that your gun has the "square butt" and it is not rounded like a Detective Special. "Fitz" is a retired police instructor who at one time also had a grip business, and he will understand exactly what you are saying and what too do about it.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Fluff: I had also considered the Tyler T-Grip, which might fill up some of the gap left above my middle finger when I'm holding lower down. I'm not quite sure what year the T-grip was developed, but it would be an interesting addition, and easily removed with no change to the revo (no finish for the grip to mar). Larger grips would be one solution, though I'm not too upset about the dangling finger, so long as I can shoot fine in that position. I have a Kel-Tec P32, so dangling pinky is not new to me.

Cosmoline: are there any instructions online for removing the sideplates? Or do I just take off the grips and start unscrewing things? I learned some very, very hard lessons with a cheap repro Colt 1860, which I would rather not repeat on this Colt. I should probably get a more mechanically-inclined friend to chaperone me in my efforts. -MV

 

[Gordon]

As long as we are on the subject of older Police positive specials; I have often wondered about one of these in 32-20. I have an Army Special in 32-20 , but the PPS always looked a little light for this caliber. What say ye Sages?

 

[Cosmoline]

Re. .32-20, the word I've heard is that the pistol loadings of the cartridge are fine in the PPS, but not the much hotter rifle only loadings folks used to use for deer. To my knowledge, nobody is making the "rifle only" loads anymore.

Re. the sideplate--what I did was just start unscrewing things, but that's what I always do. With mine the plate came right off after the screws were removed, but on some the plate is sticky. I'd suggest a light tap from behind the plate. I'm not sure what the remedy is for a plate that's really stuck. With the plate off you can do some basic cleaning and oiling, plus you can inspect the springs for buildup or breaks. That's all I'd suggest doing without a shop and the technical manuals. I learned pretty quick these things aren't Rugers. They're like fine old manual typewriters. Very tough, but also quite ornate inside.