Rounds wont fire.

[MEHavey]

Are you screwing the resizing die down to firm contact w/ the shellholder... and then say 1/16-3/8 turn more?
(i.e., cam-over upon sizing?)

 

[MEHavey]

If I find the location on the shoulder what would the next step be?

1. See post above on cam-over as a start.
2. Get/use the Hornady Case Headspace Case gauge set to duplicate factory case headspace shoulder dimension

 

[TonyAngel]

I'd suggest getting a case gauge and loading ammo that is within spec. If you do the magic marker thing, all youre going to be doing is catering to another rifle.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

This isn't a length-of-bullet problem.
This is a case sizing problem.

Do you have a Hornady Case Headspace Gauge set ?

I do not currently have that set

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

I'd suggest getting a case gauge and loading ammo that is within spec. If you do the magic marker thing, all youre going to be doing is catering to another rifle.

I use a digital caliper to gauge the case length, should and down the entire case when setting up my resizing die to ensure that its within specs that I get from the hornady reloading book 9th edition but will invest in a case gauge as well

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

1. See post above on cam-over as a start.
2. Get/use the Hornady Case Headspace Case gauge set to duplicate factory case headspace shoulder dimension

I move to contact then an additional 1/4 turn or close to. I'm going to get a cartridge gauge as well.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

Are you using a cartridge case headspace to determine if the cases are "properly sized"?

View attachment 903824

or are you just screwing the die down to the shell holder and adding a quarter turn?

I always recommend the use of small base dies for semi autos, but lets say that your cases are 1) too fat (regular sizing die) and 2) too long. That is too long between base and shoulder. Given 1 or 2, or, 1 and 2, the bolt is probably not closing in your rifle because your cases are too fat, or too long, or both!

Your chamber has to be slightly different than your buddies, and without gauges, you don't know where the difference is.

I have not till now I've used a digital caliper but will give the headspace a try ad well from now on

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

Are you sure that the bolt was closing all the way on the rounds that failed to fire? Since there were no marks on the bullets or the primers, the rounds fired in other rifles and they were handloads, my guess is that you did't size the brass enough to fit into the chamber of the new rifle. It sounds like the new rifles have really tight chambers. Did you use a case gauge on the rounds that failed to fire?

They are probably firing out of the older rifles because those were the last rifles the brass was shot from and the brass formed to those chambers. When you sized them, you probably just sized them enough to properly feed into the older rifles. Case gauges ensure that ammo is within spec, not just suitable for one firearm.

I'm guessing that you didn't have any marks on the primers because the firing pin didn't even get close to hitting the primers. Odds are that the reloads weren't chambering all the way and you were dropping the hammer on an out of battery bolt, preventing the hammer from hitting the firing pin. I'm guessing at all of this, but just the act of chambering a round by dropping the bolt on it should leave some sort of firing pin dent in the primer. This is because the firing pin is not spring loaded. It is free floated and the inertia of the bolt slamming home usually allows the pin to hit the primer with enough force to leave a little mark. Like a light primer strike.

The lack of any mark at all tells me that the pin didn't hit it.

I had to manually advance the bullet in and it seemed to be completely closed. I have more.of the rounds and am going to purchase a case gauge to see how the other rounds shown in the case gauge as well.

 

[MEHavey]

Are you by any chance crimping (and seating at the same time) ?

 

[TonyAngel]

I use a digital caliper to gauge the case length, should and down the entire case when setting up my resizing die to ensure that its within specs that I get from the hornady reloading book 9th edition but will invest in a case gauge as well

If you are measuring, you need to measure more than just the case length. In short, your bullets are too fat. With a case gauge, you can just drop the bullet into it and either it fits or it doesn't.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

If you are measuring, you need to measure more than just the case length. In short, your bullets are too fat. With a case gauge, you can just drop the bullet into it and either it fits or it doesn't.

Tha k you! I will invest in a case gauge. Jist reloaded 1000 .223 so worst case those will work with my older AR and I'll be more careful with the new reloads from here on

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

Are you by any chance crimping (and seating at the same time) ?

Yes, the die set I got does both at the same time

 

[Skeptic13]

I had a similar issue with an AR that I built using a faxon barrel. I went to a small base RCBS resizing die and that fixed my issue.

 

[MEHavey]

Are you by any chance crimping (and seating at the same time) ?

Yes, the die set I got does both at the same time

OK... We have met the enemy and he is (likely) us.
The case mouth is being crimped into the bullet, even as the bullet is still being shoved downward by the seating stem.
The trapped bullet/case-mouth is then collapsing the case shoulder a tad as it moves... just enough to cause that shoulder to bulge outward by the time the downward motion stops.

Instant case chambering interference at that point.
(Classic problem by the way)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. The 223 needs no crimp. Uncrimped neck tension is all that's req'd
2. Unscrew the seating die body enough that it no longer touches the case mouth -- no crimp at all -- lock it there forevermore.
3. Readjust the seating stem to get the bullet properly into the case at the specified OAL ...and walk away....

 

[HB]

OK... We have met the enemy and he is (likely) us.
The case mouth is being crimped into the bullet, even as the bullet is still being shoved downward by the seating stem.
The trapped bullet/case-mouth is then collapsing the case shoulder a tad as it moves... just enough to cause that shoulder to bulge outward by the time the downward motion stops.

Instant case chambering interference at that point.
(Classic problem by the way)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. The 223 needs no crimp. Uncrimped neck tension is all that's req'd
2. Unscrew the seating die body enough that it no longer touches the case mouth -- no crimp at all -- lock it there forevermore.
3. Readjust the seating stem to get the bullet properly into the case at the specified OAL ...and walk away....

I’ve had this happen to me. If you can’t see it visually try rolling a completed round on a glass table, you might be able to tell by the way it rolls.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

OK... We have met the enemy and he is (likely) us.
The case mouth is being crimped into the bullet, even as the bullet is still being shoved downward by the seating stem.
The trapped bullet/case-mouth is then collapsing the case shoulder a tad as it moves... just enough to cause that shoulder to bulge outward by the time the downward motion stops.

Instant case chambering interference at that point.
(Classic problem by the way)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. The 223 needs no crimp. Uncrimped neck tension is all that's req'd
2. Unscrew the seating die body enough that it no longer touches the case mouth -- no crimp at all -- lock it there forevermore.
3. Readjust the seating stem to get the bullet properly into the case at the specified OAL ...and walk away....

Awsome. I will give this a try as well as purchasing the case gauge. Something to sure fire quality control a little better!

 

[HB]

Awsome. I will give this a try as well as purchasing the case gauge. Something to sure fire quality control a little better!

If it makes you feel any better, my DPMS would chamber and fire the weird shoulder reloads. I didnt realize it until I loaded another mag.

 

[TonyAngel]

Yes, the die set I got does both at the same time

Wow, I didn't even think to ask this. I never even considered seating and crimping with the same die for rifle.

And yet ANOTHER case of seating and crimping causing a problem.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

If it makes you feel any better, my DPMS would chamber and fire the weird shoulder reloads. I didnt realize it until I loaded another mag.

I just finished loading 1000 223 but luckily my old ar and my friends fire those no problem. And I still have 500 rounds to reload. going to wait till I get the gauge and completely reset the hole die system from sizing to seating.

 

[joed]

If I find the location on the shoulder what would the next step be?

The problem is in the way the die is setup. Once you know where the cartridge is jamming you can figure out what is causing it. Example: marker is rubbed off at the base, you know the base of the cartridge is not being resized enough. If the marker is rubbed off at the shoulder it will tell you the problem is with the way you're sizing the shoulder area.

After reading the newer posts the problem could very likely be the crimp.

 

[dh1633pm]

I had a problem with an AR in the past. It would chamber factory ammo just fine but reloads no so much. Same reloads would chamber in bolt guns, my mini, and other AR's just fine. I got a small base die and that fixed the problem. It had a tighter chamber than other rifles. Your not getting full lockup. Yes, all the other answers could be 100% correct. A gauge is the easiest way to tell. That's how I figured mine out.

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

I had a problem with an AR in the past. It would chamber factory ammo just fine but reloads no so much. Same reloads would chamber in bolt guns, my mini, and other AR's just fine. I got a small base die and that fixed the problem. It had a tighter chamber than other rifles. Your not getting full lockup. Yes, all the other answers could be 100% correct. A gauge is the easiest way to tell. That's how I figured mine out.

Any recommendation for a small base die that is comparable or that has an adapter for hornady? Hornady states that all the dies they sell are "small base" so they have no specific small base dies for sale I can find.

 

[MEHavey]

I wouldn't worry about small base just yet.

But if you want to "just test some theory out..."

- FULL Resize a few cases that have been fired in any of the guns you say have worked (you did say the die was already set up to slightly cam-over (?) if I remember)
- Stick primers in them -- nothing else
- Hold the bolt back and hand feed one-at-a-time into the chamber and let the bolt go home. (Just release/don't baby it)
...A. Pull the trigger (pointed in a safe direction) and see if the cartridge/primer fires.
...B. Eject the case/see if it resists extraction.

If it works... we now know what the problem was. (crimped seating/shoulder bulge)

 

[Joseph M Garrett]

I wouldn't worry about small base just yet.

But if you want to "just test some theory out..."

- FULL Resize a few cases that have been fired in any of the guns you say have worked (you did say the die was already set up to slightly cam-over (?) if I remember)
- Stick primers in them -- nothing else
- Hold the bolt back and hand feed one-at-a-time into the chamber and let the bolt go home.
...A. Pull the trigger (pointed in a safe direction) and see if the cartridge/primer fires.
...B. Eject the case/see if it resists extraction.

If it works... we now know what the problem was. (crimped seating/shoulder bulge)

I will give this a try as soon as I get home from work I should have a few cases sitting around. Thank you!

 

[entropy]

Get small base dies. This will fix the problem. Who actually loads for an AR (especially more than one!) with anything but small base dies? (The question is rhetorical. No need to answer.)