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Nightcrawler

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Anybody know anything about the history of Russian rocket-propelled grenades?

We're all familliar with the RPG-7, the most prolific of the RPGs. It's the one you see the tangos hauling around in Al-Qadea training videos (saw one guy storm a building with one...was wondering what he was planning on doing with it in there....).

I have a question about. When it was standard issue in the Soviet Army (what, 1960s maybe?), how was it issued? One per squad? And the guy that carried the RPG; was it his primary weapon, or did he have to carry the launcher, the rockets, AND and AKM and spare magazines?

At the same time, we had the LAW. Lightweight, disposable, easy to tote. We replaced the LAW with the AT-4. It's also disposable, but weighs three times as much, doesn't collapse down for easy carry, and is three feet long. The AT-4 is more powerful than the LAW, but much less portable.

I don't know how efffective the AT-4 is against modern tanks, though. I'm sure it'd do okay against a T-72 (the LAW, maybe a T-55 or T-64), and the dozens of BMPs, BRDMs, BTRs, etc., armored vehicles the Russians fielded, but it's not going to be effective against a T-80 or later tank.

The RPG-7 is ineffective against our Abrams, if the reports coming back from Iraq are true. It still works well against humvees, trucks, M113s, and LAVs, though. Don't know how the upgraded armor of the Bradley holds up against it.

The Russians don't issue the RPG-7 anymore. I'm sure they have a new, lighter, less bulky launcher. Anybody know anything about what launchers came after the RPG-7?

The US military is, according to FAS, now fielding the M3 MAAWS, which is basically the Sweedish Carl Gustaf rocket launcher. Still, the M3 weighs 25 pounds. The good old LAW weighs less than eight pounds. Lot of good it'll do you if it just makes a black spot on the side of the enemy tank's armor, though...
 
Hmm, I remember there being RPG-16, 18, and 22. I can't recall much about them except that the RPG-16 has the longest range. As for the M3 MAAWS, I believe that it's just for the Army. The Marine Corps issues the MK153 SMAW to Company level AA teams while giving out AT-4s as needed. Of course the TOW and Javelin are present at the Battalion level. Last I heard the USMC was either going to keep the SMAW or move to the APOBS systems and turn Company AA guys into sappers.

I hope that's intelligible, you've struck a subject near and dear to my heart.
 
This is from memory from over 10 years ago, but the RPG Sem' is the replacement for the RPG Dva (the B40 to our Vietnam vets) (I can't remember what happened to 3, 4, 5, and 6). It's a 85mm head weighing about 5.5 pounds. Effective out to 500, real short minimum range to arm. IIRC it was like 5 yards to arm (why the KGB liked it, talk about "no knock" warrants).

They were issued one per squad in Cat I units. KGB military units usually carried several per squad (KGB military usually got first dibs on production, like the SS in Nazi Germany, plus they were sent into a lot of urban and rocky places). The gunner carries the stick and 4 heads, plus an AKM with standard load. Yes, extra heads, if available, are carried by others in the squad.


The 16, 18 and 22 replaced the 7. The 22 looked like our LAW (surprise, surprise).

From my refusnik friends, the one who had experience with it (he was only half Jewish and not beat as bad during dedyushka and sent to construction or labor regiment) said the trick is aiming the thing. Apparently it is very complicated to aim with optics at first. Takes practice.
 
There's a brief overview of the RPG7 here, with emphasis on its Israeli service.

Basically, the RPG series was cloned from the German Panzerfaust, which was a far more effective anti-tank weapon than the US Bazooka. The first mass-production version was the RPG-2, which entered Soviet service in the late 1940's. The RPG-7 came in during the early 1960's. As noted above, it's been augmented in service by later versions, but the standard RPG-7 is so good that it's still in front-line use in many nations.

My own experience with it is quite extensive. South Africa captured so many of them from Cuban, Angolan and other forces, from the mid-1970's onward, that it soon became the standard-issue rocket grenade in the SADF. A South African company also developed improved warheads for it, including the first truly effective anti-personnel rocket, which exploded on contact and spread ball-bearings all around to a lethal radius of 25 or 30 yards. That warhead was really, really useful in breaking up ambushes, believe me!
 
The AT-4 was specifically designed because the LAWs were ineffective against the modern BMPs. The AT4 is capable of penetrating 400mm of armor. Most modern battle tanks have the equivelent of 1000mm+ when figuring in their reactive armor equivelent.

Now, to the tactical question...would I, as a former Infantry NCO and future Lt, have my rifleman fire at an approaching T-80...probably not...unless I had no other choice. A javelin or a TOW would be much better. The AT4 would be only good to throw a track and give us time to run.
 
BTW, an improved RPG warhead DID penetrate the "armpit" armor on an M1A Abrams in Iraq, disabling it, with very minor injuries to crew. Someone here had a link to extensive pics of the damage....
 
Here's an article fromJanes about how M1s performed. The ArmyTimes has a report about a tank being disabled by an unknown projectile (along with some RPG info). There's also an article about an Abrams being disabled by a "roadside explosion"; they don't say exactly what it was but I'd suspect a mine or platter charge.

The point is that no tank is impervious. The main reasons that the Abrams did so well was infantry support and avoiding trouble areas. Just remember that rocket penetration depths are estimated and can differ with the type of armor. Also, when one adds reactive armor he also loses the benefit of he infantry (the very nature of RA makes it a danger to surrounding infantry).

Certain AA rockets and missiles may seem to be outdated, but a strike to a vulnerable area (c-clamp, underbelly, turret top, etc) can still be fatal along with mines and improvised devices. Placement is key.
 
cannibal, the APOBS is nothing like the SMAW and is only used to breach anti-personnel obstacles (hence the name Anti-Personnel Obstacle Breaching System). it is basically a 2 man portable backpack linear demolition charge. the SMAW is an actual "rocket launcher." the military is going to be testing a newer version of the LAW in the near future and it's being built by the same company that builds the SMAW and the SMAW-D (looks just like an AT-4, but shoots a SMAW rocket instead. the D is for "disposable.") supposedly the new LAW rocket has a longer range and much more powerful warhead and is the same size as the old LAW. look for it to be out within the next 5 years; or maybe sooner, who knows.
 
Preacherman once mentioned bad effects of not gettin gown legs away from the backblast. I wonder how many squadmates got obliterated that way...
 
In Army training for the AT-4 they preach the whole backblast thing.

When we were recieving TOW training the NCO told a story of a soldier having his arm behind the tube when the missile was launched. It removed his army from the elbow down...vaporized the arm and perfectly cauterized the wound. They took him to the hospital and pretty much just gave him some pain killers and antibiotics...there was no arm to put back and the wound was closed.
 
cookhj
Having used the APOBS system and SMAWs, I'm well aware of what they are. If you would have read the end of the sentence (the USMC was either going to keep the SMAW or move to the APOBS systems and turn Company AA guys into sappers.) you would have noticed that moving to the APOBS system would also mean turning the Company AA Marines into sappers.

As for the SMAW-D, its opponents dislike it because it only uses an HEDP warhead as opposed to the SMAW's choice between HEDP and HEAA. If they keep the rockets, I'd like to see them modify and keep the SMAW while using LEAP rockets to reduce the backblast. Thus enabling SMAWs to finally fire indoors.
 
as i was, i didn't read your post correctly. i've fired many rounds through the SMAW and i'm an APOBS instructor, but i've never shot the SMAW-D. i agree with you on the LEAP rockets. i really don't see the need to use the other rockets when you have a rocket that produces almost no back blast. it would be interesting to see how well the new LAW will perform. not sure if it'll be filling a void anywhere, but it's always nice to have another tool in your tool box.
 
Be nice to have a rocket launcher that was light weight and wasn't three feet long. There's no handy way to carry an AT-4 through the bush.

Yeah there is...they call it the Private carry ;)

I thought that as I went up in rank I'd carry less...boy was I wrong.
 
So, what you guys want is a light, short, portable variable-warhead weapon that is effective against personnel and structure, can hard-kill a modern battle tank and has no recoil OR back blast?

I am sure the brass also wants it to be inexpensive, has interminable storage life, requires no maintenanance or repair, requires minimal training and is environmentally sound.

Did I miss anything?
 
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