RSC direction.

[Matthew223]

Hello, (This first part is more informatory and introductory than anything and not necessarily pertinent information.)
I've been reading on this site and "googling" my fingers off for the last few months.
I'm considering the purchase of a RSC to put my guns in.
Reading what I have and talking to people whom I know with Gun RSCs I've learned a lot, but honestly I still have no idea what to do.

I keep my equipment in a stack on cabinet to keep the kids out.
But I'm a bit worried that isn't really the best place in the world.
All they would have to do is find the key.
I'm not super worried about theft. More fire than anything.

I've lived in the area I live in for about 10 years. It hasn't seen much growth (out in the country/farmland area of ohio) and the crime rate is pretty non-existent. Every few years we get the high school kids whom toilet paper or even smash a mailbox or two.
Other than that...there's not much going on out here.

If the house catches fire, while I have a large amount of $ in my gun collection and some of it holds personal value (fathers' handed down gun and even grandfather handed down guns). I have much bigger worries than my gun collection. But if I were to get a better rated fire type RSC I would/could put other things in it as well. I'm sure the wife would find use for it too.

I started researching this sometime last summer when I saw the Cannon RSC on sale at TSC. It just seemed cheap to me, but it did perk my wife and I's interest.
I found the RSCs at the COSTCO website that seem well priced, and from there I found a few RSC/Safe specific sites.
Recently I've been a bit more involved and honestly I'm tired of looking.
This has easily been one the most difficult things to research that I've bought in a long time. Even my last car purchase was easier than this.

(This is the more pertinent information)

I don't see or have a huge need for a ton of theft. We live in a super calm farming area, regardless Why not be somewhat more prepared than just putting them in my Stack-On "locker".

My spending limit is absolutely $3k.
I would much prefer it be closer $1500-$2000

I've been interested in A Rhino Bighorn
http://www.gunsafes.com/Bighorn-Gun-Safe-26-Gun-Capacity.html

Wanted something a bit bigger and wasn't super fond of the Made In China idea.
http://www.gunsafes.com/Rhino-Series-Gun-Safe-20-Gun-Safe.html

Then I discovered Amsec and Liberty.
I've heard varied reviews on both.
The Amsecs I've considered are...
SF 6036
http://www.safeandvaultstore.com/productdetails/1056

And the BF 6636
http://www.safeandvaultstore.com/productdetails/110

The other reason I like them beyond the actual theft or fire, is that they come pre-lit from this particular website.

And the overall lay out plus door organizer is great.
We also use an AMSEC safe deposit at our store.
I realize it's an entire different level than the SF safe. And probably American made.

The liberty safe I've become attached to are in the Lincoln series but are close in price to the Amsec.

Honestly I like the idea of external hinges but, where I'm putting it won't give me enough room to open it beyond 90 degrees anyways.

Right now I only have about 8 long guns most with optics
and 4 hand guns. I'm sure my collection won't stop there though.

I'm really lost.
I don't want to spend $3k on a safe.
I want more protection so that I could feel safer about putting other things than just guns in there. But I don't want to over spend either. And like I said before I'm not super worried about theft, but I guess a fire is always possible.
The safe is going in the basement along an outside basement wall, but it's where the house entry goes into the garage.
So while the basement stops along this wall the only room above it are the kitchen and garage.

Can someone help me get some direction? Please?
I would really appreciate it.
Thank you in advance.
-Matt

 

[Ala Dan]

First of all, Welcome Aboard To THR-

Ask yourself, 'how much theft and fire protection do I need"? Then, when you
look at RSC's, pay close attention to the RSC's rating. Our in-house experts
state that any quality RSC can be broken into, in just a matter of less than 5
minutes by a professional thief; but work fairly well against the "snatch and
grab crowd", looking for something to sell for their next high~! Drills, sledge
hammers, and the like destroy the RSC's quickly; allowing the intruders easy
access to your valuables. Next, the fire rating - some will say 1200 degrees
for 30 minutes; while better ones will say 1800 degrees for 1 hour.

I use a Liberty Colonial series, with the pretty forrest [dark] green/gold and
brass trim to store my guns in. Thus far, it has served me well over 'bout the
last 4 or 5 years~! Good Luck, and now I will refer you to our experts that
sell and maintain "SAFE'S" and RSC's for a living.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'm sure some of the safe experts like CB900 and A1abdj will chime in soon, but I ended up going with a liberty fatboy jr. It's got 45min fire rating and I think the amsec SF series have 60min. If I had the money I'd probably opt for the Amsec of a similar size but for $1399 delivered (inside, where I wanted it) and a 48 gun capacity the liberty was too hard to pass up.
If your main goal is fire protection I'd suggest a monitored alarm system that has the ability to alert the fire department in case one happens when you aren't home. Also if it's going in the basement I'd elevate it off the floor since water damage can also destroy guns (and there will be a lot of water if the fire dept. has to put out a fire).
Good luck. It is a difficult decision for sure!

 

[Matthew223]

I appreciate the input so far! Yes fire is for sure my only somewhat larger concern.
I do plan on elevating it. Either with a concrete slab and some type of wood platform or just a wood platform.

 

[heeler]

Matthew I went round and round researching gun safes before I finally chose my Amsec BF 66X36 in October of 2009.
I too was willing to spend up to 3k for what I wanted and after all the research I finally had three safes narrowed down to chose from and they were the following.
1. A Fort Knox Defender with the body steel upgrade and door upgrade.
I could have chosen the outer body to go up from 10 gauge steel to 3/16ths and the plate of the door would grow from the standard 1/4" to 3/8".
Or I could have opted for the same door upgrade and had it ordered with the outer body in 10 gauge as well as the inner body in 10 gauge.
The price of these options ran the 66x37 model to around $3200.00
2.Sturdy Minute Man which came with a 3/16" outer body and a door that was 5/16th plate.
The fire lining was not fire rated sheetrock such as Fort Knox uses and was not a cast concrete type material the Amsec uses but was an insulation used in furnaces and stoves.
This safe was around $2200.00.
3. The American Security BF model...Double wall body with the outside 10 gauge steel and the inner steel wall 1/16th of an inch for a total steel make up of roughly 3/16ths of an inch.
The fire lining is a two inch fill of a concrete like cast filling that has no air gaps and adds some burglary resistance to the safe.
The door is a true 1/2 inch plate steel back by a 1 inch steel enclosed fire lining made of the same material used in the walls.
This safe was priced to me in textured paint (sandstone) with the good old regular spinner lock for $2299.00 which I then decided to pay an additional $58.00 for the optional Stor-it shelves on the door.
Well all three are very,very good gun safes and all three are American made but the Knox was way higher than the other two in price and I didnt feel comfortable ordering the Sturdy sight unseen as they do not have a dealer network so the logical conclusion was to go with the Amsec and I am very pleased with it.
Good luck on your decision.

 

[a1abdj]

Reading what I have and talking to people whom I know with Gun RSCs I've learned a lot, but honestly I still have no idea what to do.

from there I found a few RSC/Safe specific sites.

I don't know where you're from, but I'm assuming there are no brick and mortar safe guys in your area? If you don't know of any, you can PM me your location, and I can double check for you.

You should always look locally first. If there's nobody locally to buy from, then try a real safe company who just so happens to have a website. If that doesn't work, then try a real retailer who just so happens to have a website. Last resort should be a website that simply sells safes.

Your biggest concern seems to be fire. As such, gun safes are really the last thing you should be looking at. None of them are truely rated for fire. Most of them use gypsum board for insulation. I laugh at the companies who claim their company has a better "rating" than another company when they are both using the exact same materials. A few companies use ceramic products. Nobody can point to an example of a UL rated fire safe, which is what you want, that uses these materials. The AMSEC BFs, Browns, Graffunders, and an imported unit that I sell use cast insulations, similar to what real UL rated safes use. These types of safes are going to be the closest thing to a real fire rated safe that you're going to get in a gun safe package.

If you need true fire protection, you need a safe with a UL fire rating.

We also use an AMSEC safe deposit at our store.
I realize it's an entire different level than the SF safe. And probably American made.

AMSEC is one of the largest safe manufacturers in the world. The SF is an import, and many of the other safes they sell are imported as well. They also have several US built lines. The BF is US built.

The other reason I like them beyond the actual theft or fire, is that they come pre-lit from this particular website.

So you're biggest concern is fire, but you're going to run live 110v electricity inside of the safe?

The basement placement is going to offer you some of the best odds against fire. If you do not have a walkout, the safe may flood during a fire, so water damage may be a risk.

I don't want to spend $3k on a safe.
I want more protection so that I could feel safer about putting other things than just guns in there.

Don't take any of this the wrong way, because I hear it everyday from multiple people.

Everybody wants (fill in the blank), but doesn't want to pay the money for it. There are safes people should be using, safes people want, and safes people have a budget for. Rarely are all three ever the same safe.

You should determine your needs first, then shop for a safe that fits those needs. In the end, it may cost you more than the other two routes, but it will actually do what you want it to do. I'm not a big fan of "other stuff" being placed in a gun safe, because that's not really what they are designed to do. Gun safes are great for guns. Other stuff should be used in other stuff safes, because that's what they are designed to do.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to help. Just don't go running back to "Dye The Safe Guy" with it, as I don't want him appearing any more knowledgeable about safes than he already is.

 

[Matthew223]

Pm'd you my location.
There's a store called Old English that's close to me.
He carries some safes. I'm actually on my way there now to look.
Other than that there's a gander moutain.

I don't know of any that are within 50 miles.

Yes fire protection would rate higher for me than theft, but not by much.
I really just want a well organized somewhat attractive piece of equipment.
But I also would rather have some American made...not necessarily for that patriotism part but because it sounds like the material and methods used to construct these safes are sub par. So in effect I would be over paying by "underpaying" if that makes sense.
Or so this is the way it seems.

Even though this is in the basement we have a finished basement it will also be enclosed under a stair case. Only two sides of the safe will be visible once you open the closet. (it's going in a corner )
But the wife doesn't want something that doesn't look semi "furniture" like.

Honestly I like the Amsec Sf 6036 but am put off by it being a "China" safe.
How do i know I'm even getting good quality at this point?
The liberty safes seem good.
I'm super interested in a lincoln LX35 as it fits my size needs.

The lincoln safes say there are UL RSC rated for burglary. But not really any info on Fire ratings. There's lots of number but not authorization.
I've seen lots of videos of these things getting torched and the contents surviving.


Also I will not take your offer to help and guide me the wrong direction.
I'm a regional manager for retail. So I know how someone can be slightly misguided by advertising.
Honestly if I have one more customer call and ask when we are getting 5G networks I'll lose it.
I appreciate your levelness and willingness to help when I know you have answered these question before.

You said I should be looking at something other than "gun cabinets."
What else is there in my price range that would house my guns well.

And when I say I'm worried about fire.
I would rate my concern on a scale of one to ten at about
6
I would rate my concern for theft at maybe a 4.
This is why I'm torn about spending $3k on a "safe"

Honestly I do like the Safes I mentioned for aesthetic reason and well as overall use reason. I picked units that have door organizers. As I feel I could really use that.
I understand what you mean about electric in the safe. So what about those dry rods everyone uses? You just use desiccant?

I'm traveling to the Old English shop now.
He carries Heritage from what I understand. An "Uncle-in-law" has one and likes it. Hopefully this store will have other brands. Then to Gander. Hopefully this will help me a bit.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Check out Costco, they run a special every so often, and like a1abdj said
there isn't that much difference between most RSC's, but there is a lot between a few, if you think of it, there are a few that are little more that wall lockers (stack-on or Sentry 8 gun cabinets) and a few top of the line ones that are more construction than paint.

Most fall in the middle, and they charge for paint and NAME, Personally I don't see the difference between a stack-on and a Browning gun safe, other than the paint job, and price.

 

[heeler]

Matthew,Heritage makes some nice safes.
The only reason Heritage did not make my list was because unlike Fort Knox you could only get them with inside hinges which was a big zero for me.
Last I will say that even though the Liberty Lincoln is a decent gun safe it does not hold a candle to the others I mentioned,especially in security.
Very little plate steel in the Lincoln's door.

 

[a1abdj]

Of all of the safes you mentioned, the AMSEC BF is going to be the best bang for the buck. I have mentioned all of the reasons several times before, but some of the others have already hit the high points in their comments.

I PM'd you a dealer's information.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Since theft isn't a major concern and your fire protection need is lessend a bit by putting the safe in the basement, I vote for the Cannon at Tractor Supply. You can get a pretty nice big RSC for the money. They have a good warranty.

As far as fire goes, unless you are protecting irreplaceable heirlooms, you may not have to sweat it when it comes to coverage. My homeowners insurance only has a 5k cap on theft of firearms. When it comes to loss due to fire, they are covered just like any of my other personal property.

 

[Matthew223]

Honestly I really like the Heritage I saw.
I'm doing more research on them now.
But for just a touch over $1500
I can have the size I want and Weight I would like. Also it's overall appearance would please the wife.

On a side note they had some of the most substantial interior hinges I have seen yet.
Much large than the Lincoln series safes.

 

[heeler]

Which Heritage are you looking at Matthew??

 

[Matthew223]

It was a regal.
a1abdj send me some info on a somewhat local amsec dealer. So I'm not sold, but I did really like that heritage safe.
It's a bit pricey for what is honestly offers.
It sounds strange but I literally do a price per lb. comparison when it comes right down to it.

 

[Matthew223]

Without even looking at the Amsec I know it would be my best option.
At 2399.99 it's painful, but I know in the long run I won't doubt it.
Plus it's REALLY certified. I'm just having a hard time swallowing it.

 

[a1abdj]

It sounds strange but I literally do a price per lb. comparison when it comes right down to it.

It's funny that you mention that, because we have had used safe sales where we sell them by the pound.

Keep in mind that on a safe that uses gypsum board, the majority of the weight is drywall. Although it adds weight itself, it provides no additional burglary protection. On most cast filled safes, the fill material is weight that adds to the security of the unit. Even a typical document safe gets extra strength from the fill.

 

[heeler]

Matthew,I was looking at a late 2009 Heritage catalogue I have,among dozens of gun safe builders I asked for catalogues from,and the specs on the Heritage Regal is that the outer body is 1/8 inch steel and the door is made up off an outer 3/16th of an inch steel and then they place an insulation material and obviously weld another inner plate of again the same 3/16th of an inch steel.
That door in itself is far more sturdy(no pun intended) than what Liberty offers in their Lincoln whose door is an outer layer of flimsy 12 gauge and and inner layer of 11 gauge.
The Regal,according to Heritage has three layers of sheetrock insulation which they claim is a total thickness of 1 3/4 inches.
The door has four way bolts as well.
Not sure what physical size gun safe you are looking at but either the Heritage or Lincoln is not at all a bad choice but if you can find the right price out there as was mentioned before you will get more gun safe for the money with the Amsec BF in my opinion.
At least give Sturdy a look see.

 

[heeler]

I will just say this about doors with inner and outer door hinges.
My Amsec has outer door hinges and I own an older Amsec gun safe that has inner door hinges.
I cant tell you many times the door opening of the inner door hinge safe has caused me aggravation while on the other hand my BF with the outer door hinges which allows a total swing of 180 degrees is so much better.
In fact I was storing some reasonably high price objects for a very good friend for a short period who was going through lets us say a relationship crisis with his live in G/F that would have entailed taking out and re-configuring the whole entire shelving had my Amsec not been able to do the full swing.
That full swing door is worth more than you might think.

 

[Matthew223]

Unfortunately my basement location will just barley allow the door to open beyond 90 degrees. So internal vs. external isn't super important. Other than for security reasons.
I'm still looking my the local shop has a big spring sale coming up. I guess they sell out floor and in stock models at big discounts. If it's enough I may impulse it and be done.
But I'm planning a trip to go look at the Amsec in person too.