Ruger Redhawk: .45 Colt vs .44 mag?

[MCMXI]

Funny how we'll find anything to argue about! Personally I think that everyone should own at least one revolver and rifle chambered in .45 Colt AND one revolver and rifle chambered in .44 Magnum ... and RELOAD for both!! I’ll admit that I don't have a rifle chambered in .44 Magnum but that's only because Marlin had its head up it's a$$ when it chose the twist rate for the '94 barrel and I have no interest in a top eject lever action rifle.

OK ... back to the [strike]argument[/strike] discussion ...

Take a gander at Hodgdon's latest data and you will see that the .44Mag holds a 100fps advantage over the .45Colt, loaded to 30,000CUP "Ruger only" levels, across the board.

Not really. The .45 Colt "Ruger Only" loads listed use a barrel that is more than 1" shorter than the barrel used for the .44 Magnum loads (not good for 100fps difference but not a scientific comparison either). Also, it's clear that the .45 Colt operates at significantly lower pressure while almost matching, and in some cases exceeding, the performance of the .44 Magnum. For example, using H110 (my powder of choice) and 240gr bullet, the .44 Mag achieves 1522 fps at 36,200 CUP whereas the .45 Colt achieves 1532 fps at 30,000 CUP ... essentially the same velocity but with 17% less pressure!! For a 300gr bullet and H110 powder, the .45 Colt achieves 90% of the velocity but with 27% less pressure!! (see below).

However, it is a 140yr old cartridge and chamber dimensions are all over the board. We see undersized and oversized chamber mouths, grossly oversized chambers, etc. As a result, they are typically not as accurate as your average .44 and case life suffers with heavy loads.

Again, not really. I have six revolvers chambered in .45 Colt and all are well within spec and exceed all of my accuracy expectations. The common theme among them is that they're current (modern) iterations and I think the whole oversized chamber/throat issue now belongs with the other myths of yesteryear including supposed extraction issues and weak cases. Just take a look on THR to see what many folks are doing with their bone stock Blackhawks, Redhawks and Super Redhawks.

Dead??? This is pure nonsense.

Dead isn't the right word ... stagnant would be a better one!! How has the .44 Remington Magnum evolved since its introduction in the 1950's? Now compare that to the .45 Colt which is more than twice the age of the .44 Magnum. The .45 Colt has evolved into the .454 Casull (1957) and then the .460 S&W Magnum.

If you have interest in long range shooting I’d urge you to get the .44 Mag. At any given bullet weight the .44 Mag bullet will have a better ballistic coefficient, and thus better performance at long range.

What's your definition of "long-range" shooting as it pertains to pistol cartridges?

I'm going to side with many members here that IF you don't reload then definitely start out with a .44 Magnum. IF you do reload then you can't go wrong with either. If you want to push the envelope AND you reload then buy a Ruger chambered in .45 Colt ... no ifs, ands or buts!! At the top end of either cartridge, the .45 Colt will do more with less pressure.

 

[Eb1]

never an argument from my point of view.

I have to say that there is a nostalgia about the ".45". It rhymes good with other words or phrases. Like "Dead or Alive" Shoot'em with my 'ole .45, and all that. Great.

The pressure really doesn't make a difference when you gun is fabricated to handle the said pressures.

The OP should just pic the gun that looks and feels good to them. You could argue (oops), debate this subject until the cows come home. When said and done it is a two headed nickle.


I know this. I am biased right now because I recently bought a .44 Magnum, and I think I am set. "Famous last words." Right?

 

[Hastings]

Many think the pressure makes no difference, but I have heard from two eye-doctor and one shooting aquaintance that repeated shooting with high pressure cartridges can detach retinas. The shooting aquaintance was experiencing partial retinal detachment due to shooting high pressure handgun and rifle cartridges. The doctors I spoke to said it is always a possibility, but only likely in individuals with a pre-existing condition that makes them prone to retinal detachment, like extreme near or farsightedness, laser surgery, etc. I happen to fall into that category, and while I think the danger is overstated by the medical crowd, meeting someone who has experienced it is eye-opening. That gentleman now shoots nothing larger than a .380 pistol, and a .22 rifle. Formerly he prefered hopped up 454casulls and 300wsm's. Any time I can get the work done with less pressure I eagerly take advantage of it.

 

[dagger dog]

If you really want an eye opener on .45 Colt high pressure loadings go to John Linebaughs site www.customsixguns.com and read his findings on reloading the .45 Colt, Dissolving the Myth

 

[Eb1]

What myth do you speak of?

 

[Hunt480]

It may be apples and oranges but I think the 44 has the edge. The 44 is hard to beat for all around use. Its not close to being a dead caliber not by a long shot...

 

[22-rimfire]

Yes, it is a matter of biased opinion. So, I'd get the 41 mag Redhawk. Between your two, I would probably get the 44 mag since I am more likely to buy factory ammo for it and it is much easier to find.

 

[Buck Snort]

Geeze, what a terrible choice to have to make, .45 Colt or .44 Mag. EEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!! I CAN'T DECIDE, I CAN'T DECIDE!! So, I own both!

 

[Kernel]

What's your definition of "long-range" shooting as it pertains to pistol cartridges?

For mere mortals, like myself, I’d say 100 yds, with a .44 Mag and open sights. Add 25 yds with a red dot, and 50 yds with a 2x scope. 4x (or more) is, in my view, to much magnification for a hunting revolver.

That said, Elmer Keith is famous for taking a wounded Mule Deer at 600 yds with a handgun. The pistol he used was a 6-inch Smith & Wesson model 29, with open sights. In .44 magnum, of course.

Silhouette shooters, using open sight production revolvers, knock over 100 yard rams all the time. EVERY time (or nearly), if they want to win. In that sport, at least when I paid attention years ago, the .44 Mag dominated by wide margins.

 

[wleoff]

I agree with 1858, you need one of each Redhawk....

But then the 45 Colt isn't dead... All 45 Colts...

I need to put together a photo of the 44 Magnums... but got side tracked into dedicated 44 Special guns.. this can get addictive. Just start with any .44 or .45 and you can't go wrong.

 

[BCRider]

To say that .44Mag is a stagnant cartridge is just not right. Granted much reloading work has been done by generations of .44Mag lovers but that work has produced a very rich reloading subculture. .44Mag can span a much wider range of loads from mild to wild than any other round out there. And that includes the .45Colt since the slightly thinner cylinder means that you can't load the Colt case up to the same pressure as the .44mag.

To be fair though, not many folks enjoy shooting the full house "wild" .44Mag loads. So realistically and given that the seriously stupidly strong .44 loads are too much for most folks this means that with reloading the .44Mag and .45Colt can match each other step for step for the most part. And with reloading the costs between the two are limited to a couple of pennys per round for the slightly heavier .45Colt bullets.

As for running out and high tailing off to buy factory? Most reloaders would rather die than buy factory once they are commited to reloading. So realistically I just don't see that as any sort of frequent occurance and at most a VERY small blip in the decision process.

As to which would be more taxing to reload? Neither. From a practical perspective there would be no difference in one over the other. Zip... nada..... Both have a wide variety of bullets both cast and jacketed available. And with either the brass lasts about the same when loaded to a given power factor.

So which to get? I never thought I'd go this way but all this comparison has me thinking that instead of the .44Mag I've lusted after that I should go with a Redhawk or Blackhawk in .45Colt. The bullet is bigger which provides better bragging rights and the case is larger in volume for playing with slow and big flash producing powders such as H110 or 2400.

 

[dagger dog]

Eb1,

On reading Linebaughs article, the myth of which he writes, is the one of the weak .45 Colt case, and that it is not suitable for "magnum" loadings.

But of course you along with others reading this post,already have knowledge, that it is just a myth.

Just more food for the grey matter!

 

[NoirFan]

Thanks to everybody for weighing in and especially thanks to 1858 for the Hodgdon charts. I've got at least 3 months bere I make the decision so I'll mull over everything that's been said here. I have to say right now I'm leaning towards the .45 colt because of the "same performance, less pressure" argument but a lot can change in 3 months.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'd get the .45 Colt because the Redhawk 4" in .44 is stupid heavy for what it is. The .45 Colt bores shave off a fair amount of that obesity. In a 629, I'd go the other way, since .45 Colt doesn't leave enough steel for my taste. A .44 Mountain Gun is light enough.

The ballistics wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to me, since .44 Magnum will do whatever you want from either cartridge. Who cares if it's "stagnant"? That just means that you can easily find safe, effective loads that have been tested by many for a long time. OTOH the .45 Colt will do whatever you want from a 4" revolver, too. I'd buy the gun I preferred, not the caliber.

If I want something hotter, I'll get a .454 or .460, though, not fret over .44 vs. 45.

 

[Eb1]

I am not really keen on quoting Chuck Hawks, but here is some information to ponder. Please read this. I thought I would throw this into the mix for discussion before the OP makes his decission.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

 

[MCMXI]

Who cares if it's "stagnant"? That just means that you can easily find safe, effective loads that have been tested by many for a long time. OTOH the .45 Colt will do whatever you want from a 4" revolver, too. I'd buy the gun I preferred, not the caliber.

ArmedBear, you did see the big smiley face after my .44 Magnum "stagnant" comment right? Another member said that it was "dead" so I was trying to play Devil's Advocate. Let's be honest, both the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt are excellent, well-proven cartridges and it's a win/win situation for anyone considering either.

Good luck to the OP with your choice. For the record, my Redhawk and Super Redhawk are easier and more enjoyable to shoot (less felt recoil) with VERY hot .45 Colt loads or .454 Casull loads compared to my S&W 629 shooting hot factory loads. The 629 weighs 43.6oz unloaded, the Redhawk weighs 46.4oz and the Super Redhawk "Alaskan" weighs 44.7oz so I'm not convinced that it's simply a weight issue. Perhaps it's due to the lower operating pressure of the .45 Colt ... I'm not sure.

 

[Gottahaveone]

Today you can get a 5 1/2 inch stainless redhawk in .44 magnum for like what ... $500 - $600 dollars?

I sure wish you would tell me where. I have been looking for a 5 1/2" .44mag Redhawk for MONTHS.

 

[CraigC]

Not really. The .45 Colt "Ruger Only" loads listed use a barrel that is more than 1" shorter than the barrel used for the .44 Magnum loads (not good for 100fps difference but not a scientific comparison either). Also, it's clear that the .45 Colt operates at significantly lower pressure while almost matching, and in some cases exceeding, the performance of the .44 Magnum. For example, using H110 (my powder of choice) and 240gr bullet, the .44 Mag achieves 1522 fps at 36,200 CUP whereas the .45 Colt achieves 1532 fps at 30,000 CUP ... essentially the same velocity but with 17% less pressure!! For a 300gr bullet and H110 powder, the .45 Colt achieves 90% of the velocity but with 27% less pressure!! (see below).

Yeah, really! In the 240gr loading you listed, you must've overlooked the fact that the .44Mag reached peak velocity with Lil Gun, which was 50fps over the .45Colt equivalent. You must've also overlooked that the 270gr .44 Gold Dot outran the 260gr .45 Partition by 70fps. In your chart, the 300gr XTP .44 outran the 300gr Speer .45 by 120fps. In the 325gr cast bullets in each chambering, the .44 outran the .45 by over 100fps and did so with two grains less powder. Same for the 330gr .44 and 335gr .45 as well as the 355gr .44 and 360gr .45Colt. Two grains doesn't sound like much but it's 10%. We all know that every sixgun is a law unto itself and that it is entirely possible for a given sixgun to shoot faster than one an inch longer. Even so, all things being equal, the difference in an inch is only 25fps, if that. However, that is not the point. The point is not that the 50-100fps advantage the .44Mag 'may' have over the .45Colt is significant. The point is that the common argument that gets repeated over and over again that "more performance, less pressure" is tired and for the most part, untrue.

As far as less pressure, so what??? What does that gain you? Nothing. Theoretically the sixgun running at lower pressure will last longer though I have yet to see this theory proven. It is insignificant. If you are ever able to shoot a Ruger loose, .44 or .45, you will surely have gotten your money's worth. Differences between the fitting of individual guns will play a larger role than the minor difference in pressure. It surely does not reduce recoil. I have a matching pair of custom Rugers, one a .44 and one a .45 and if there is a difference between them with comparable loads, I can't detect it.

How has the .44 Remington Magnum evolved since its introduction in the 1950's?

I'd say it's changed quite a bit. Bullet selection is about 100x times better, as it is for everything else. We've come a long way from soft lead cored jacketed 240's and swaged, gas checked SWC's. Bullets now range from lightweight jacketed bullets to heavy bonded core bullets like the Gold Dot. Cast bullets go from the grand old Keith 250gr to LBT's as heavy as 355gr.

The .45 Colt has evolved into the .454 Casull (1957) and then the .460 S&W Magnum.

How is that even relevant?

Again, not really. I have six revolvers chambered in .45 Colt and all are well within spec and exceed all of my accuracy expectations. The common theme among them is that they're current (modern) iterations and I think the whole oversized chamber/throat issue now belongs with the other myths of yesteryear including supposed extraction issues and weak cases. Just take a look on THR to see what many folks are doing with their bone stock Blackhawks, Redhawks and Super Redhawks.

Yes, really! No myth!!! Poll the top sixgunsmiths in the US and you will find that the biggest complaint with the .45Colt is the chamber. Rifles are notorious for having grossly oversized chambers. Call Linebaugh and ask him. The problem has not gone away. There are far and away more custom .45Colt's built out of something smaller than any other conversion. Why? Because it's the only way to get a proper chamber cut. Now ask them how often they have to rechamber to .44Mag. Probably practically never. Linebaugh even offers this package on Colt SAA's which results in greater accuracy and higher velocities. Measurable differences. Even the new Colt's, as good as they are, still come with oversized chamber mouths. New Rugers are typically shipped with undersized mouths. There's a feller around that near about makes a living out of reaming .45 mouths. Ask him how many .45's he does compared to the rest.

In my own guns it certainly holds true. Of my four .45Colt's, they all have oversized chambers and overwork the cases. My New Frontier has grossly oversized mouths at .457-.458" but somehow manages to shoot well with .452's despite that. My USPFA does okay and the aforementioned custom Ruger is only a decent shooter after having its mouths opened up, forcing cone and crown recut as well as a general tune-up and action job. All told, about $400 in accuracy work. The rifle is also a fair shooter, nothing to write home about and this is a $900 late model Winchester 1892. By comparison, I have four factory .44Mag sixguns that shoot into 2"@50yds with preferred loads. Two Rugers and two S&W's. I have a Marlin 1894S .44 that will make most folks call me a liar when I say that it shoots the factory 270gr Gold Dot into less than an inch at 100yds. My handloads do almost as well, I have a target in my desk drawer that is five shots into 1 3/8"@100yds with a 240gr Gold Dot over 22.0gr 2400.

Anyway, the bottom line is that they are both great cartridges with a lot to offer. I'm still a big proponent of the .45Colt, I just don't drink the Kool Aid. It ain't perfect, far from it. The only real advantage it has is slightly more frontal area. I just don't think you have to poop on the .44Mag to promote it.

 

[Eb1]

Here is a more realistic comparison of the .45 Colt and a .44. It is a .44 SPL, but that is to me what is more comparable in all actuality.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Comparing 44 Special to 45 Colt.htm


As mentioned in the article. The .454 Casul is the .45 Colt magnum. If I wanted to push the .45 Colt, but did not want a .454 Casul. I would buy the .454, and load it down. Seems to me it would be a much safer way to go.

But as you can see in the article with the .429 and .452 bullets stacked. The difference in bullet size is negligible at best.

 

[riomedinamike]

I read through everything quickly, but I don't think anyone has pointedly asked an important question - what are you going to do with the pistol? Hunting? Target shooting? Plinking?

I, like a lot of the posters, have both revolvers, and reload, and love both.

I just hunt deer and hogs, and both calibers do well. Both calibers knock em down, right there, as long as you put the shot where it needs to be.

Both calibers can be "downloaded" by using 44 special (or even 44 russian) or 45 schofield, or moderate loads of unique. In fact, my favorite loads are known as "Skeeter Skelton" loads to send 240-250 gr bullets around 900 fps, which do everything I need.

As to hotrodding the rounds, I am not experienced in that arena as I don't hunt bears or elk even though I would love to. But, if you research it, Ross Seyfried who doesn't write as much anymore put out a few great articles on the 45 and why he preferred it over the 44 for high performance rounds in Ruger only revolvers.

Finally, as to 45 acp's in a 45 colt revolver you need an extra cylinder. It's fun but not necessary to enjoy mild loads in the 45.

When you don't have any reloads handy, it is obviously easier to find 44 mags than it is to find hotter 45 colt rounds - but I have bought Buffalo Bore ammo - great stuff, but more expensive than doing it yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[NoirFan]

I read through everything quickly, but I don't think anyone has pointedly asked an important question - what are you going to do with the pistol? Hunting? Target shooting? Plinking?

Well, I have to be realistic and say that the Redhawk will be 95% nothing more than a "fun gun". I have some vague ideas about hunting with it in the future but for now I just want to own a powerful 40-something caliber DA revolver, that I can use to work up some full-potential handloads. The furthest I will shoot is probably the 100-yard steel gong at my range.

Hope this helps.

It does, thanks!

 

[Victor1Echo]

I would have to say go with the 45 Colt--No one has pointed out that this round had a baseball team, and a beer named after it!

 

[pls1911]

WOW what a response to a simple question.
The easy answer is this: whichever makes you happy will serve your needs well.
As stated above, handloaded in strong frames the .45 is as good as the .44, but why bother?
The .45 LC 255 SWC at 1000 fps will crush a tough old hog from any angle and you'll not need more. The .44 spl or the 44 mag will do the same.
The non mag whoppers (45 or 44) are much easier on your body too.
My cousin is an ortho surgeon who fly fishes in bad country, packs a ruger alaskan in 454 casull, but he only shoots 45 colts in all other situations because "he's fixed too many wrists from macho types" who brutalize themselves with wrist cannons regularly.
There's a time and place for them all. and the .454 covers the broadest flexibility, 45 colt mild to 454 casull wild!
I choose the plain old .45 LC in ruger blackHawks because I can shoot all bullets designed for the 45 acp as well... I cast just about all .45 pistol bullets, 180 graines through 300 gr Gas checked... and they'll do what I need done...
Go easy on yourself and your equipment... you'll enjoy it MUCH more.

 

[THROK]

What was the final decision, .44 or .45?

 

[Walkalong]

I sure wish you would tell me where.

I bought my .41 & .44 Mag Redhawks for under $450 off GB. Be patient.

I could not choose either, so I chose all three, .41, .44, & .45.......