Rust Issues

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avengd7x

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Hi, I am having a rust issue, I tried to figure this out on my own, but I can't solve the problem.

I have a few safes, but just one of them is causing a weird rust/corrosion problem.

All of my safes are in my basement, basement has a dehumidifier that keeps the overall humidity below 40%. All safes have a golden rod and several desiccants that I recharge regularly.

The one safe that is causing the rust issue has the lowest humidity rating, it is usually between 16-22% humidity, the other safes are higher usually 25-30%.

All my handguns are in velcro holsters that are stuck to the safe sides and door, that's significant because if you look at the S&W SD9, the rust/corrosion is only where the handgun slide is open to the air.

I appreciate any help, thanks for your time.

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Wow. I am not really sure what to say on that one, especially if the other contents of the other safes are fine and they are all in the same location. Have you tried a different humidity meter? Are all of the safes the same brand? Might sound crazy but maybe Chinese drywall in this specific safe? They have been known to have some form of acidic substance in some drywall and most safe companies, especially those on the low end, use some form of drywall or another as a fire barrier. I'd be curious to know any other details you can offer, That looks like quite the issue you have there. I am afraid I'd have to be moving my stuff somewhere else with that kind of a rust issue.
 
Wow. I am not really sure what to say on that one, especially if the other contents of the other safes are fine and they are all in the same location. Have you tried a different humidity meter? Are all of the safes the same brand? Might sound crazy but maybe Chinese drywall in this specific safe? They have been known to have some form of acidic substance in some drywall and most safe companies, especially those on the low end, use some form of drywall or another as a fire barrier. I'd be curious to know any other details you can offer, That looks like quite the issue you have there. I am afraid I'd have to be moving my stuff somewhere else with that kind of a rust issue.

thanks for the response, I have the same type of humidity meter in all 3 safes and I have tried moving them between safes, they're all pretty consistent and the safe having issues is always the lowest humidity (by roughly 10%).

two of the safes are the same brand, they're the redhead branded safes from bass pro and I'm 99% sure they're American made (doesn't mean it's not chinese drywall though I guess). the third safe is Chinese, but of course it's not the one having issues.

are there any pictures or questions you'd like? I'm so confused as to what is causing this, the sights on my handguns, the stainless revolvers, the lower AR parts, rifle gasblocks, and rifle muzzle breaks are showing the most issues. I'm not even sure if it's rust to be honest... I scrubbed the guns about 8 months ago with eezox to try to prevent rust, but I put that stuff on all my other guns too.

thanks again for your help guys
 
I think Silent Stalker is on the right track, I don't know how that could happen except for some kind of chemical contamination in the safe. The only thing I've seen that bad is with tools stored in a garage along with pool chemicals. I certainly wouldn't leave anything in the safe until you figure it out.
 
Hmmm...I am at a bit of a loss on this one. Is it possible you shot some corrosive ammo out of one of those guns and then came home and put it in the safe, taking a relatively warm object with corrosive ammo remnants on it and then brought it into a relatively cool environment? Doing so would have created some condensation in the safe but it should have been burned off so to speak by the rods. However, combined with corrosive ammo in the atmosphere, even for a short time may have started the process. It would probably be a lot of trouble, but I would be curious as to if you moved either the safe and all the contents to a new location or even just the safe contents itself, if the rust continued. I would of course, clean them and oil them up real good before doing so. I would also clean them up and take all ammo out of there and anything else that might have some kind of chemicals in it. Remove everything but your firearms, assuming you have anything else in there.
 
ok thanks for the feedback, I'm afraid to put these rusty guns in my other safes, I guess I'll just take them out for now.

I'm so confused by the level of rust on the stainless ruger revolver... by the way I have some sig p320s, m&ps, and other modern handguns that are showing no signs of rust or corrosion at all. and I'm pretty sure the 357 magnum casings are nickel, what's with the corrosion on those?

I lied about the p320 and m&ps, they have rust inside on the trigger bars and some internal parts
 
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I hope you figure it out. That's pretty crazy. What do you use to clean your guns? If any of those are nickel that is very surprising as nickel is very good for preventing corrosion. Is it possible something that you used to clean had some kind of salts mixed in with it or some kind of other chemical compound? Maybe it was something that you used to clean that did not mix well with the eezox. Mixing of chems could certainly be an issue especially if something you cleaned with had some kind of oxidizing effect that you then more or less sealed on with the eezox. I will keep thinking about it but I have exhausted all of my theories at the moment. Remove all firearms and put them somewhere else. Grab and old tool that you don't care about and stick it in there and see if the same thing happens to it. if it does then you know it wasn't the cleaner or the eezox. if it doesn't then you have ruled the safe out and narrowed it down to some kind of chemical combo you used on your firearms.
 
it's funny that you mention the corrosive ammo idea, I actually shoot a lot of surplus 5.45 out of one of my ARs, but if course it was in another safe... it's actually the exact same safe as the rusting one.

I also uploaded a picture of my cz75, see how the "rust" is only on the part of the barrel that's not covered by the slide?

also, the m&p 22 shows the corrosion I mentioned.

the rust free gun pics are of the 5.45 AR in the identical safe. they look perfect to me

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I hope you figure it out. That's pretty crazy. What do you use to clean your guns? If any of those are nickel that is very surprising as nickel is very good for preventing corrosion. Is it possible something that you used to clean had some kind of salts mixed in with it or some kind of other chemical compound? Maybe it was something that you used to clean that did not mix well with the eezox. Mixing of chems could certainly be an issue especially if something you cleaned with had some kind of oxidizing effect that you then more or less sealed on with the eezox. I will keep thinking about it but I have exhausted all of my theories at the moment. Remove all firearms and put them somewhere else. Grab and old tool that you don't care about and stick it in there and see if the same thing happens to it. if it does then you know it wasn't the cleaner or the eezox. if it doesn't then you have ruled the safe out and narrowed it down to some kind of chemical combo you used on your firearms.

I'll do exactly this, thanks for your help, I really appreciate it

oh and I use a microfiber cloth, or bore patches, and qtips. I usually just wipe off carbon and lube with slip2000. I use microfiber towels with eezox or wd40 specialist anti-rust to wipe off the outside of the guns
 
I'm just so heartbroken looking at those pics, but welcome to the forum!

The issue with the Chinese drywall was sulphur outgassing, and even if a safe was "made" in the USA, the chances are high that any drywall used in its construction would have come from China.:fire:

There should be a chemical test out there you can do to detect the presence of sulphur.

You might also try hanging a RID bag in the safe, if it fills with water, then you have a moisture issue, if not it might be corrosive gasses.

As far as trying to salvage your guns, oiled steel wool is probably your best bet, followed by a heavy layer of rust preventative like CLP, Rem Oil, or silicone spray. After that, I would look into some of the silicone storage bags that are commercially available.

Once again, so sorry.......:(:uhoh:
 
I'm no chemist but perhaps the fact that the humidity is lower is indicating that another chemical is present that is displacing the water in the air and making it condense on your guns?
This is only guesswork on my part I know ...

I always thought optimal humidity is what's used at places like museums which is about 50%, no? What we have here is some kind of chemical oxidation capable of affecting nickel & stain resistant steel.
 
avengd7x

Sorry to hear of your rust troubles. Nothing to add to what has already been mentioned as to the cause but I have found Flitz Metal Polish to work well at removing rust and protecting the surface that's been treated.
 
My experience with my standard safe with standard guts is that the carpeting/ nylon material (even though man-made) was capable of wicking what little moisture was in the atmosphere and starting the oxidation process in the areas that touched the metal surface of the firearms. I caught it very early on and got it stopped by simply treating the contact areas with a wipe of gun oil - it never happened again. From your photos, you have some very aggressive rust happening (what looks to be) even on non-contact areas. That is strange - appears to be “chemical, salt-based” to me (but I am simply guessing).
 
Heartbreaking photos, for sure.

I handled a couple of claims in Florida involving the Chinese drywall. Basically, they used gypsum to scrub and filter their factory smokestacks and then took the contaminated gypsum and made sheetrock. They then sold that sheetrock to contractors in Florida who used it t rebuild after Katrina.

The Chinese also used their toxic sheetrock in safes, apparently...

http://www.tomziemer.com/2015/03/insulation-chinese-made-gun-safes.html
 
Looks like drywall in the fire safe could be the issue... best to dump the safe or at least strip out the gypsum board Sheetrock.

I would dump the safe.

According to the previous link, getting a American made fire safe might be the best alternative.
 
I'd gut the safe, scrub and paint the interior and then decide what to do.
Personally, I'd demote it to a residential security container and use it to hold all of the firearm-related stuff that doesn't go "bang".
Then again, I'm big on recycling... .
 
-Also, I might take this problem up with Bass Pro and Redhead Safes to see if they'd be willing to trade in the faulty safe.

And I'm a big believer in oiled brass wool for dealing with surface rust on blued or fine-finished metals. Just remember that the entire firearm and its accessories are now contaminated and must be detail-cleansd to prevent future corrosion.
 
How close is the problem safe to a vent? I'm interested in the difference in humidity between your safes and am wondering if you are pumping any NOx gas directly into the safe. That definitely can produce an acid or at the very least change temperatures at a different pace then the rest of the surrounding environment. I have seen this problem before at work.
 
Wow. I am not really sure what to say on that one, especially if the other contents of the other safes are fine and they are all in the same location. Have you tried a different humidity meter? Are all of the safes the same brand? Might sound crazy but maybe Chinese drywall in this specific safe? They have been known to have some form of acidic substance in some drywall and most safe companies, especially those on the low end, use some form of drywall or another as a fire barrier. I'd be curious to know any other details you can offer, That looks like quite the issue you have there. I am afraid I'd have to be moving my stuff somewhere else with that kind of a rust issue.
I like that. Rust is not always caused by high humidity content, matter of fact a very low humidity can result in rust. There are also different types of what we commonly just call rust and this is a good read on the subject. My guess is that something in that safe is out gassing something which is causing the problem. Your one image shows what looks to be a stainless gun rusting which to me points more to a different chemical reaction than typical Red or Orange colored rust, more like a Brown rust. Something in that safe is out gassing into the safe's atmosphere and whatever it is, there is plenty of it. Do you notice any for example acrid odor in that safe verse the others?

On another note the NRA suggest a Relative Humidity around 50% and a Mean Temperature of about 70 Degrees F. You really do not want too dry as anything with wood grips or stock needs a little moisture in the environment to keep the wood from drying out. Thus the typical 50% RH and 70 F temperature which is what the museum uses.

Anyway, I would start with a sniff test.

Ron
 
Call the mfg. Get their email. Forward all pics to them with serial number of safe.

Depending on response gutting and removing the drywall followed by scuff and paint interior seems prudent.

Sure looks like some type of contaminant outgassing in the safe.

First hope is the safe mfg has a solution as your story won't look good for future sales when you fam document both safes and the mfg response.
 
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