S&W Victory Timing

[cheesebigot]

I have a S&W Victory model with a timing issue. When operating the trigger in double-action, the trigger will not cock the hammer (I cannot pull the trigger back to force cocking) unless I "push" the trigger to one side and then pull.

I think the issue is with the cylinder timing as I swung out the cylinder and depressed the bolt with a pin and was able to operate the trigger in double action without any problems.

Knowing this, are there other alternatives that may be causing the problem? Am I looking at replacing the cylinder or is it more likely to require lock-work by a 'smith?

 

[rcmodel]

Lock-work by a smith.

Replacing the cylinder without properly fitting it to the frame & barrel and checking the timing will result in more problems then you have now.

It could be something as simple as built-up crud & dried grease inside the action.

Or a weak DA hammer fly spring, or pin.

Or a loose ejector rod.

Or more serious, a broken hammer or trigger stud in the frame.

A good gunsmith who knows S&W revolvers is your first & only option.

rc

 

[LAGS]

I would have to see the revolver in person to pinpoint the exact cause of your problems.
I have two of the Victory revolvers, one in the .38 S&W and one that I converted to .38 Spl, but I have the original cylinder that still is timed up to fit the gun.
I would say your ejector rod is worn or not screwed in all the way if the double action works with the cylinder open and the latch pressed back.
But it could be the rebound slide bolt not moving properly under the hammer.

 

[LAGS]

@ Cheesebigot
There is a thread in handguns about the S&W Model 10 disassembly.
This model is almost the same workings as the Victory

 

[cheesebigot]

@LAGS: Thanks, I'll check that thread out.

@rcmodel: Barring the aforementioned thread, I'll take it to a 'smith and hope it's something simple.

Thanks all.

 

[4v50 Gary]

More details please. I wonder if the sear or sear spring isn't working. Generally when you pull the trigger in the DA mode, the tail of the hammer rises to engage the sear, causing the sear to cam back and push the hammer to the rear. If the sear spring isn't working or the sear is worn, then the tail of the trigger won't catch it to lift it.

Please describe what you mean by pushing the trigger to one side.

 

[cheesebigot]

Please describe what you mean by pushing the trigger to one side.

When pulling the trigger as I would normally , I pull as though instead of pulling the trigger to my face (straight back), I am pulling it towards either shoulder (back and to the side). Imagine pulling the trigger using the base of your finger instead of the tip - the result is pressure back and to the side.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The older Victory model sear had a spring/pin combination that pushed the sear forward. If it works when the pressure is applied both the backward and to the side but not when pressure is applied only backward, I suspect it's dirty and said dirt is interfering with the sear spring/pin.

If you work on it yourself, be sure to buy one of those cheap magnetic trays from Harbor Freight or elsewhere. It'll keep the parts from walking off the workbench. Also be careful with anything under spring pressure. It can go orbital and NASA doesn't want the competition.

 

[WardenWolf]

Also be careful with anything under spring pressure. It can go orbital and NASA doesn't want the competition.

+1. I still remember when I accidentally discovered how to remove the secondary piston on my SKS. *PING* "OW!" The heavy metal part arced perfectly through the air, across the room, and beaned my dad in the head. The Soviets were the first in space, and even their guns remind you of it.

I wouldn't want to mess with a revolver. That's just me. They're just too complex and hard to get into. Have a gunsmith do it.

 

[LAGS]

@ Cheesebigot.
It is up to you, but this model of revolver is not that hard to work on.
The only spring that is under tension is the one on the rebound slide, and that one is a little hard to remove unless you make a tool out of an old round shank phillips head screwdriver.
But I think once you take off the sideplate, you can find the problem very easily.
Do Not Pry the sideplate off.
Remove all the screws, and then tap the sideplate with a Mallet to get it to POP off.
The guns function is easier to see working if you first loosen the tension on the mainspring, then remove the mainspring.

 

[rcmodel]

The only thing I would add is, Don't tap the side-plate.

Tap the right side of the grip frame and it will move left, and inertia will leave the side-plate where it left it.

And keep a thumb over the side-plate so it doesn't jump out and fall on the concrete floor!!

rc

 

[cheesebigot]

After a little swearing and some creative tooling (no finish was damaged in the reparation of this gun), I was able to remove a lot of the smaller internals and do a fine pick cleaning.

I'll admit it took me nearly 30 minutes to remove the sideplate using a mallet and I nearly lost the hammer block after finally removing it. Turns out I shoot some really nasty ammo, lots of gunk I never imagined had collected in lots of places it probably shouldn't be.

After some long solvent baths and some sun-drying, I'm happy to report she's functioning beautifully again. I'm not sure what kind of ammo I should be switching to help prevent further fouling, but maybe reloading might help prevent this in the future.

Thanks to all for the sound advice (and for that awesome 5-page disassembly thread), another one is saved the heartache of a trip to the 'smith.

 

[LAGS]

@ Cheesebigot
Every once in a while , take off the grips and give the internals a good flushing with sprays like WD-40 Or Break Free.
Just flush them good, and I dont think you will have further issues.

 

[4v50 Gary]

No WD-40. That deposits a film that with time will gum up the action. Remington got sued for millions when one fellow's safety wouldn't work and he shot himself in the foot while climbing into his truck. The cause? First his own negligence (poor muzzle control) and neglect of safety rules (empty firearm or at least the chamber before inserting it into the vehicle). Second, he had sprayed down his gun for years with WD-40 and a film developed, deactivating the safety.

 

[cheesebigot]

Yeah, I was stupid once and sprayed WD40 inside my SKS thinking it would be helpful to the gas piston...never again.

I think some CLP or Simple Green might be good in this case.


As it stands, anyone know a clean-burning powder for use in light .38 Spl loads?

 

[LAGS]

There is no harm in using WD-40 to flush out an action every so once in a while.
But it is NOT a replacement for Proper Maintenance an Cleaning.
You have to disassemble your firearms once in a while to clean out the crap that builds up, and that included Film left by spray cleaners of any kind.
Spray lubes will not work on Gas Piston assemblies, because the powder fouling is Cooked on and all you are doing is getting the fouling wet.
But in the previous post, the Key word was, it was only flushed for YEARS with WD-40, untill a film built up.
There was no mention of any maintenance cleaning, or the film would have been cleaned away.
Regular Gun Oil will make the same flm over time.
But most people take apart a gun to clean and oil it.
The Lazy guy is the one who thinks he can just Spray and walk away.

 

[cheesebigot]

I'm usually good about cleaning internals of firearms I shoot often - my Mausers are still pristine after cases of nasty Iranian 8mm.

My surprise, in this case, was more with discovering that gunk and crud could cause the type of problem I was having with the action. It really "felt" more mechanically failed than it was.