Saiga 7.62x39 trip to the range

[Saiga39]

I took advantage of some nice weather and a few hours of free time to try and get my Saiga 7.62x39 sighted in at 100 yards.

I've attached a pic of my final target at 100 yards using a Russian PK-01 red dot sight. I was sighting with 5 shot groups. My first group on this target were high-left. I didn't make any adjustments and my next group was low-right. I looked at my watch and realized I needed to get going so I made no adjustments and fired off 10 rounds pretty quickly. I was using Winchester 7.62x39 that my wife picked up for me at WalMart.

So my questions are:

Given the 20 shots on this target, should I consider my Saiga sighted?

Is this a good grouping for an AK at 100 yards?

Is this about the best grouping I can expect out of an AK and 7.62x39?

The reason I ask the above is that I have an AR lower and I'm wondering if I should finish the build. I've seen lots of pics of AR range reports with nice groups. I like the Saiga but I'm also liking the idea of having a more modern and accurate rifle.

Those are my questions.

Thanks for your responses!!

 

[elmerfudd]

I've had my best results with my Saigax39 using Golden Tiger. It groups nice and tight for the first ten rounds or so, and then as the barrel warms up the groups get larger. It starts out around 2 MOA, but groups grow to around the same as you are getting if I let the barrel heat up. Maybe not quite that bad, but around 4.5 MOA.

 

[jpwilly]

Looks like an AK "pattern" to me to call them groups is a little insulting! Otherwise yes that's what AKs do...you did fine, your rifle did fine, your cheap ammo did fine and you hit what you were aiming at. Don't go thinking you will get AR groups out of that thing!

 

[Deer Hunter]

Saigas are extremely accurate AK rifles. Get some more trigger time in and I bet you'll see those groups shrink.

Mine does 2 MOA with Wolf. It's a .223 model, though.

 

[Funderb]

By all means keep building that ar in.223
You may never get a better range gun than that.

Saigas are just for semi-accurate fun.

 

[FieroCDSP]

Is that the 16" barrel or the 22" model?

 

[Hoppy590]

Looks like an AK "pattern" to me to call them groups is a little insulting! Otherwise yes that's what AKs do...you did fine, your rifle did fine, your cheap ammo did fine and you hit what you were aiming at. Don't go thinking you will get AR groups out of that thing!

talk about ignorant/arrogant/ jack ass statements....

and no i wont apologize.

 

[steveracer]

Ask Larry about Saiga accuracy, and then look at his competition scores with factory AKs and see how much of a "patters" AKs shoot.
I'm with Hoppy.

 

[guntotinguy]

Hey,I LOVE my Saiga's .223 and .308 as (to me) they are reliable and seeming to be accurate 'enough'.The wife and I took our RRA Entry Tactical and the Siaga .223 to the range last week and even though the 'groupings' were different,the RRA's groups were very tight and the Siaga's more spread out 1 to 2" (not our best shooting day but...)

Saigas are extremely accurate AK rifles

I definitely think so...

Saigas are just for semi-accurate fun.

Absolutely!

 

[WinchesterAA]

That's pretty crappy at 100 yards, dude.. Just sayin.

 

[Funderb]

hey lets all make saiga39 feel like crap.
you suck man.
I love destructive criticism too!
Cmon guys.

 

[LongRangeInternational]

I'd try different ammo, a magnified scope, and see if you can get a consistent group. I'll bet your groups would shrink wit the magnified scope.

 

[JWarren]

hey lets all make saiga39 feel like crap.
you suck man.
I love destructive criticism too!
Cmon guys.

I agree with you in principle. However, I do see some positives if we try. Let me take a stab at it.


Saiga39,

I've owned a few AKs, and I had a Saiga in 308.

While I DO feel that your rifle is capable of better groups, there is -- in my opinion-- one effective way to improve AK groups. That is practice. I'm not saying that you can't shoot or that you are an inexperienced shooter. I AM saying that all rifles have to be learned-- probably moreso in AKs.

I've been shooting rifles all my life. When I got my first AK, I wasn't all that impressed with the accuracy. However, it took me some time to learn the rifle's sights, the trigger, etc. I don't think a single rifle benefits from learning the break of the trigger MORE than an AK. Once you figure that out, you will find that you will shoot the AK better. I know I did.

I'd rather you see where you can improve your shooting of the rifle and your technique than you believe that your groups are the best that your Saiga can do. I think it will surprise you-- but only after you've done your time in "earning" that surprise.


Good luck and good shooting!



-- John

 

[Atlasx]

I would have to ask was that shot offhand with a bipod or some type of rest? My Saiga 7.62X39 shots sub MOA@100 yds using a red dot and wolf ammo using a pistol case for a rest. I know my offhand would open up I am just not sure how much....with luck I might stay in the same county.

Atlasx

 

[rbernie]

Given the 20 shots on this target, should I consider my Saiga sighted?

Yes.

Is this a good grouping for an AK at 100 yards?

WASR - yes. Saiga - no.

Is this about the best grouping I can expect out of an AK and 7.62x39?

A quality AK shooting quality (not Russian steel-cased) ammo will do better.

The reason I ask the above is that I have an AR lower and I'm wondering if I should finish the build. I've seen lots of pics of AR range reports with nice groups. I like the Saiga but I'm also liking the idea of having a more modern and accurate rifle.

Finish the build - there is no harm (and lots of good) that comes from having an AR.

The Saiga is a decent rifle that can give adequate accuracy if shot well and fed good ammo. The standard trigger in the Saiga makes 100+ yard accuracy difficult. Most folk that I know that have accurate Saigas have also performed the conversion back to standard AK config, and use the G2 trigger. That seems to help a lot.

 

[rangerruck]

red dots and 100 yds don't go together, except for body hits, which is what you have. If you want smaller groups, either use the factory sights, or get a mojo peep site for the rear. also , you need way more trigger time; that group shoudl shrink in half, just using the setup you have now, it will just take some time to get used to it.
lastly, you need diff ammo, get some foreign stuff of any kind, wolf, siver bear, brown bear, T.c. , Barnaul, anything!!! Don't worry is my msg, it will get much better.

 

[ozwyn]

I won't speak badly of the grouping. if that target was a human torso at 100 yards, they are having a really, really bad day.

and that's what the ak design was for.

Yes, you can expect grouping to improve, no, you won't likely be sniping with the Saiga. But yes, it will get the job done in the ranges it is designed for.

 

[Saiga39]

It's okay if general opinion is that I need more range time.

Like I said it was my first attempt at getting on paper at 100 yards and from the way it's spread out it's hard to know if I'm sighted properly. I guess I need to go out again and see where I end up.

I was shooting off a sand bag.

I sighted it in at 25 yards with my iron sites set at 2. I didn't even bother with the iron sites at 100 yards. I'm definitely going to look into a peep or mojo sight.

I sighted the red dot in at 25 yards and then went out to 100 with no adjustments. That's the target you see.

I was shooting Golden Tiger and then switched to the Winchester for this target. I probably should have stayed with the Golden Tiger.

Honestly for my first time out at 100 yards, I was pretty happy with that result and it sounds like the Saiga and this caliber can do better.

I guess I'll have to spend more time at the range.

 

[benEzra]

red dots and 100 yds don't go together, except for body hits, which is what you have.

Red dots can do 2 MOA or so at 100 with practice, which isn't too bad.

I was shooting off a sand bag.

Be sure the bag is pretty far back (just forward of the trigger guard or magazine well, if possible); some AK's are a little sensitive to something placed under the forend, due to the way the barrel bends/vibrates as the gas piston launches.

Also, if you can find a rear bag, use it as well when sighting in. You'll do best when the rifle is on target with you relaxed. Also make sure you are squeezing the trigger gradually instead of yanking it.

Saigas are good rifles and you'll definitely see the groups improve.