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Saudi Naval base killer exploited LOOPHOLE to purchase handgun

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aim1, Dec 8, 2019.

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  1. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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  2. RON in PA

    RON in PA Member

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    what loop hole? If he honestly filled out a 4473 he would have to state that he was not a US citizen and thus ineligible purchase a handgun.
     
  3. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    It's not a loophole. It's a specific exception written into the law by Congress:
     
  4. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Oh boy... you can bet that the usual media suspects will take this article and run with it - carefully neglecting to mention what your research has shown....

    And of course if he was not able to purchase a firearm his attack would have started with an assault on someone that was armed to gain their weapon... True believers won't allow a little thing like not being able to purchase legally slow them down... As a cop on the street I did once or twice run into the kind of very heavy bad actor that never carried or owned a firearm since he was planning to take yours.... to start the party...
     
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  5. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

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    That appears to cover foreign hunters with their own weapons. Example...a bunch of Swiss guys and ladies book an Elk Hunt in the Rockies....they bring or ship their rifles (thus taking possession of them). I don’t see this covering purchase.
     
  6. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    In the U.S., if you are a prohibited person, you can’t even *touch* a firearm, much less possess one. If you are over 21 and are a prohibited person from buying, you are a prohibited person from possessing, if I understand correctly.
     
  7. hq

    hq Member

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    Hmm? Like guyfromohio said, it's a bit unclear whether this might or might not cover purchases. The wording suggests that it could, in which case I could've saved a bunch in purchasing guns on my own in the US and having an agent handle just the export documents and shipping, instead of charging fairly substantial transaction and transfer fees.

    I'll have to look into this more closely.
     
  8. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

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    Reports this morning of him hosting a dinner party earlier in the week where he showed videos of mass shootings.

    Compulsive Ideation for mass shooting is the main ingredient in a mass shooting besides access to a firearm.

    Terrorism is is the first conclusion our prejudices might lead us to. But this guy met military standards and vetting.

    What if there were questions on the 4473 about mental health or criminal obsessions and ideation?
     
  9. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    This is not rocket science.

    Look up/read the Law:
    Question 18.c. Exceptions to the Nonimmigrant Alien Prohibition and Acceptable Documentation: An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued by the Federal Government, a State or local government, or an Indian tribe federally recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, which is valid and unexpired; (2) was admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes; (3) has received a waiver from the prohibition from the Attorney General of the United States; (4) is an official representative of a foreign government who is accredited to the United States Government....(etc,etc)
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
     
  10. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    I know in Ohio if you purchase a range permit that is a legal State Identification. You can buy a gun with just that. You don't need an ID to purchase. Just pay $3 for the 1 day pass.

    Of course he would have to lie on the 4473 but he would pass the background check, unless he had a criminal record.
     
  11. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    Once again: No he did not have to do anything of the kind.
    Again, read the Law
     
  12. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I tried to edit for brevity, but apparently edited out the part y'all really want to see.
    Yes, purchases are covered and 18 USC 922(y)(2)(A) is the hunting license exception.
     
  13. hq

    hq Member

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    Thanks. This makes my trips to the US quite a bit more interesting from now on. I've felt like a diabetic kid in a candy store every time I've been to a gun show.
     
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  14. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    So the article should read was legally entitled to purchase a firearm under 18 USC 922(y)(2)(A),

    But of course that is not as good as citing those Evil, Murderous LOOPHOLES.
    We all know those loopholes go around attacking people turning them into crazed killers......

    Heck a loopholes cousin, a pothole attacked my car the other day and their big brother a Sh!phole has attacked the whole state of CA.:D
     
  15. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    These days "loophole" usually just means "thing I don't like in this law or contract."

    Just like "common sense" usually means "please don't ask me to show my work."
     
  16. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    My pleasure.
    No doubt! (I didn't even look at your location until you posted this.) Also bear in mind that you'll also have state law to contend with. If your trips to the US take you to places like South Dakota or Kansas, state law won't be a problem. If you go to places like CA, NY, or IL, it could be a radically different story.
     
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    He can't take the gun home with him either can he?
     
  18. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll bet he could. I'll also bet it's complicated and requires a lot of forms. I just don't know much about Finnish gun laws. I'd be willing to bet that Finland is more permissive on gun ownership than many other European countries.
     
  19. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    See: https://kanavatauki.wordpress.com/2016/11/01/gun-control-us-vs-finland/
    Interestingly, Finland is not far behind America in terms of the rate of private gun ownership. In a study consisting of 178 countries, the United States ranks at no. 1 when speaking of the rate of privately owned firearms per 100 population. In comparison, Finland ranks 4th yet generally gun control does not seem to be as hotly debated in Finland as it is in the US and that is largely due to the fact that gun deaths are not as prevalent in Finland as they are in the US.

    How can that possibly be? (He asks)
     
  20. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    My son is TDY at Pensacola from San Diego for two weeks - he was on base when the shooting occurred. His thoughts were that he found it very bizarre that 15k trained military personnel, members of the greatest fighting force the world has ever known, were sitting duck targets having no weapons to return fire. It does seem ironic.
     
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  21. hq

    hq Member

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    Absolutely. Most of my "regular" trips are to Wisconsin, Nevada and Oregon, which sometimes means I'll fly to LA, SF or Chicago and drive from there. Meaning that I'll have to drop the possible purchases off at a shipping agent before I cross a state line on my way back.
    Not on a regular flight unless all export paperwork has cleared, which isn't likely to happen within the time constraints of a 2-3 week trip. Upon arrival I'll only need a valid purchase permits + import permits for the types of guns I'm importing so it's a very straightforward process. You can get them beforehand and they're valid for a year. I could even buy and import certain types of vintage and modern machine guns, but they're much cheaper here (for example, I paid less than $1k for a mint Thompson 1928 SMG a few years ago) and getting an export permit for one from the US is nigh on impossible.
     
  22. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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  23. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

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    I think Kevin Creighton (Ammoman blogger) just wrote about this last week.

    He ran across it when he worked at a gun range. By law if you're here on a temporary visa (student, tourist) not only can't you buy a gun, you can't posses or rent one. Unless of course you have a hunting license. Some ranges evidently aren't aware of the rental (possession) limitation and break the law.

    Interestingly, you can buy an Alaskan hunting license on-line from out of state. $60 for an annual small game one
     
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  24. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Yeah, I don't see this as a loophole issue, but simply a part of the law. It is only being called a loophole because somebody didn't like it.

    At least since WWII, they have always been sitting targets at home. We do not trust our own military to be armed in-country with the exceptions of training and security (which is often not even by military personnel, but by civilian LEOs).
     
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  25. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    I am however somewhat dismayed that a Pensacola FFL thought that the stringy dude with the familiar accent buying a handgun via the hunting exemption didn't think twice. It's all very well saying how much red flag laws are abused but if this wasn't a case where red flags should have been flying, then there are none. I can only think of the scene in the movie Borat when he's buying an SUV.
     
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