yup! the cylinder length determines the amount of powder you can stuff in the case!
murf
School me on big bore handguns
- Thread starter westernrover
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murf
lckdnldd
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>westernrover< I am in the process of getting a 44mag Redhawk but I have been using a 357 mag. GP 100 for the past several years for hunting deer and hogs on my property. I handload so the the 357 mag loads I use are made by me. You mentioned 180 gr. hard cast bullets. I have had good success with the Cast Performance 180gr. LWFNGC at about 1150 fps. out of a 4.2" barrel. They will go clean through most any animal I hunt and it will shatter bone if it runs into any on the way out. I have made many one shot kills with them. I have a lot of black bears moving through my land and there is always a sow with cubs hanging around. They get within 75 yards of my home on a regular basis. I have never had to shoot one and do not care to but that 180gr. round is quite capable of taking one down with good shot placement. I have pretty much run the gamut as far as handloads for the 357 mag and the other handgun calibers I load for. I just decided I wanted a larger caliber to work with and the 44 mag fits the bill. Not to mention it packs a wallop. Good topic.
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This only applies if the bullet will be able to be loaded out further in the 45 colt cylinder. Very few can and even fewer will hold crimp if you do. For maximum performance out of a 454 or any hot loaded high velocity cartridge like the 454 or 5 shot 45 colt gun you need to use a swift aframe or barnes xpb or a monometal solid. These cant be loaded out further into the cylinder and be crimped properly. Theres a variety of hardcasts that have a nose heavy profile that wont fit a freedom arms gun but will do so in a bfr or srh gun. The best example of what i think murf is talking about is the garret offerings. They offer a 400 gr or 405 gr 45 colt load that isnt loaded in 454. This is due to the nose length of the big bullet. That said i dont think in anyway you gain anything with that load over the 365 gr 454 or 45 colt loads. Then again i dont use hardcasts for serious business.
The 454 case is 4 grains more capacity than the 45 colt case. This mirrors the roughly 5 grains larger capacity of the 475 linebaugh over the 480. The 480 is one of my favorites but it doesnt equal the 475. Perhaps its good enough for some, it is for me since i dont gain much with the case length due to the frangible nature and unreliability of cast bullets being used in those cartridges. The 275 barnes is an extremely useful bullet in the 480 but less so due to the inability to use it in 475 without trimming the 475L case down so it will fit.
CraigC
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The custom oversized cylinders are made from similar steels to what Ruger uses. They gain strength from being larger in diameter, made possible by enlarging the frame window. They are not limited to 50-55,000psi, that is simply what they are loaded to. They could easily be loaded to 65,000psi. We have to remember that they were developed with cast bullets in mind and there's nothing to be gained by running them 100fps faster at 10,000psi higher pressure but effect can be lost by pushing them too fast. When I made my previous comment, it was in the context of cast bullets. Yes, you can push jacketed bullets a little faster. Maybe the difference matters, maybe it doesn't. Fact is that there is very little high pressure .45Colt data developed for jacketed bullets. The opposite is true of the .454.
There is also an issue of cylinder/cartridge length. The FA's cylinder is shorter than a custom Ruger single action, Super Redhawk or BFR and some bullets can only be seated in .45Colt cases. Of course, there is always the issue of sufficient neck tension if they're seated too long but there's probably not enough room to make that a problem.
The Corbin cannelure tool will easily roll a crimp groove wherever you want it in a copper solid or jacketed bullet. Been doing it for years.
That said, I don't see how it matters much either way.
There is also an issue of cylinder/cartridge length. The FA's cylinder is shorter than a custom Ruger single action, Super Redhawk or BFR and some bullets can only be seated in .45Colt cases. Of course, there is always the issue of sufficient neck tension if they're seated too long but there's probably not enough room to make that a problem.
The Corbin cannelure tool will easily roll a crimp groove wherever you want it in a copper solid or jacketed bullet. Been doing it for years.
That said, I don't see how it matters much either way.
If the bullet can take it and perform as designed, speed is your friend... cast bullets, not so much.
Tradmark brought up that 405 grain load from Garrett and it is a good one that actually tracks/penetrates straight. I got good penetration from that load on a really large water buffalo. I think Tradmark is also correct in his belief that you really aren’t gaining anything over the 365 grain load (same nose profile as the 405 grain bullet).
Tradmark brought up that 405 grain load from Garrett and it is a good one that actually tracks/penetrates straight. I got good penetration from that load on a really large water buffalo. I think Tradmark is also correct in his belief that you really aren’t gaining anything over the 365 grain load (same nose profile as the 405 grain bullet).
yup! the crimp groove is there for a reason. handloaders can seat the bullet farther into the case and crimp over the ogive, but lose a ton of powder capacity.
murf
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lewwallace
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Big bore USFA "Omnipotent" 45Colt. Wish I could find one for sale. Been looking for 4-5 yrs!
lewwallace
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Some big bore english Webley WG revolvers in 455/476 center fire calibers. All before 1898!
MTNSTRYDER
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My advice Don’t do it stick with The perfectly adequate and lighter 357mag. RIGHT NO WAY! Big Bore is just way more fun. I have more than one 45 colt one BFR454 casual and a 460 rifle. I shoot 45colt more than any other round.My daily carry is a Redhawk 45.
The 45colt is just pleasnt to shoot and if you add a rifle the fun factor goes way up.
The 45colt is just pleasnt to shoot and if you add a rifle the fun factor goes way up.
Obturation
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Big bores in most configurations if used as intended are unbeatable against things that breathe. You can load a 454 casull with double the power of a 357 magnum at its absolute max and the 454 casull is just getting warmed up. Load a 44,45,454,460,475,480,500 to 600-700 ft lb of energy and its mild where the same energy produced by a 357 can often feel a bit stout to some at that level. Decades of swinging a hammer and shooting large calibers have left me a bit oblivious to what some consider harsh.I am a poor judge of this at times , i've been told. My main point being a small bore reved all the way up has a hard time keeping up with a big bore at idle. Others may percieve this differently but im not superman by any stretch of the imagination, ive fired 500 mag loads that i did find unpleasant but nothing that really hurt after the recoil impulse has passed. I do shoot 357 magnum a lot but mainly for economy , its a damn fine caliber in its own right if used as intended.
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