School me on BPCR

[scrat]

Ok you all know i have 4 black powder revolvers. I recently picked up a R&D conversion Cylinder for my Uberti Walker. SO After then forking out almost 40.00 for 50 bullets. YA only ones i could find. Thats going to stop.

So here is the question.
1. When loading black powder cartridge do you measure the overall length first then put in enough powder so that when you press in the bullet that it meets the powder at that correct length.

2. If i am going to be loading for 45 Colt would i be using Goex 2F.


I have done a lot of smokeless reloads but never black powder. From what i understand you are not supposed to have a gap between the powder and the bullet. Is this correct. In reading the pamphlet that came with the Cylinder. Says to load no more than 34 grains of black powder FPG. What the heck is FPG. So there you have it. Now tell me what i need to know about BPCR. i have the necessary dies, press, heck primers no problem. But whats the diff.

 

[sharps59]

Load

I would start w/ your favoriite black powder load of 3ffg if you use 2 ffg then use it. It's just not as clean.Would then use cream of wheat or grits (my favorite filler) If yo use wads w/ round ball use wads but not lubed. you don't want the lube migrating into the powder after sitting for awhile. Use just enough to get light compression to keep the powder against the primer flash hole. Don't know what weight bullet you are using But personly I would try to get somthing around the same weight as your round ball. that should give you the same performance and point of impact w/ the same powder charge.:banghead:
I shoot a 44-40 23 gr 3ffg bullet weight is 240gr use just enough grits so that when i push the bullet it sits on the filler leaving it about .040 above my finished seating depth.

 

[scrat]

Ok makes sence. NOW

Im thinking then 30 grains black Goex 3f with filler wad followed by a 200 grain Round nose lead bullet. With enough filler to make the bullet go to the desired length. What about the powder. In regular black powder revolvers you crank down on the bullet to pack the powder. Should i compress the powder with a rod or something before using the filler.

 

[sharps59]

I' don't over crank on my revolver when i load round ball use just enough firm pressure to shave the lead and set it. my powder and filler for cap and ball are all premeasured so the ball sits flush w/ the cylinder.
I do not use a rod before putting in the filler. I let the base of the bullet on the filler compress every thing.
If you are going to use so much powder that seating the bullet to overall lenght required will deform the bullet then i would use a compression die or rod.

 

[sundance44s]

One thing I might add when loading for the pistol ...I found the heavyer 250 gr bullets will give you much tighter groups ..the lighter 180 gr or 200 gr don`t seem to do as well out of the cap and ball revolvers . My favorite 45 LC bullets are the ones I cast 255 gr . The lighter bullets work fine in my rifle chambered in 45 lc.
Useing my cast bullets my 1858 Remington conversions shoot tighter groups than my Uberti 1873 cartridge pistol .
If you plan on buying moly lube bullets , you have more success useing one of the subs ..like APP or 777 powder.........Pyrodex and real black require SPG or any food grade lube to do well .

 

[StrawHat]

Two more bullets to consider for this;

One would be the collar button bullet (145 grains)as molded by Lyman and others.

The other would be the Lyman 450229, 155grain hollow base.

A round ball weighs 142 grains in pure lead.

For lube, 50/50 petroleum jelly/beeswax is a good starting point for homemade.

The lube helps keep the powder fouling soft.

You might still need to wipe the arbor and cylinder every couple of cylinders full but you should be used to that from using the Walker the original way.

When I load 45 Long Colt with black powder I use enough to fill the case less 1/4" and then seat the bullet. No wad, I get enough compression that way.

I must say there are more efficient platforms for launching the 45 LC than the Walker but folks say the same about my 50-70 Trapdoor Mississippi!

 

[sundance44s]

I just noticed on the Kirst conversion site ..they will have a gated conversion cylinder for the Uberti Walker at the end of this month ..nice Idea you wouldn`t have to take the barrel off to load ...but would have to open up the capping port to allow for the 45 cartridges .....My Walker is a ASM ..the Uberti Remingtons conversion cylinders fit my ASM Remmie so I`m wondering if that will be the case with the Walker ..anyone know the lenght of the Uberti Walker cylinder ? If it`s the same lenght as the ASM I may try one .

 

[scrat]

Dont know about the asm. I can measure the Uberti Walker.

 

[scrat]

Straw hat.

Let me get this straight. you load up the case 1/4 " from the top then press the bullet in what to meet the powder.

Whats with the air gap any how. When you load for smoke less having an airgap between the powder and bullet is ok. But its like Taboo for black powder. Why is that.

 

[scrat]

Ok Sundance44s

R&D Conversion Cylinder measures
Overall length 2.438 inches
Overall length from on top of rotating blades on back 2.570

The original Uberti Cylinder measures
Overall Length 2.438
Overall length from top of rotating blades on back 2.568 Woops mine may be a little worn.

This is the Uberti measurements oh the Arbor shaft the cylinder rides on measures .570

Now only thing to consider is the timing might not be the same. Even if both cylinders measure the same.

One more thing the Rotating blades on the back outer diameter measures.
.892 about the same on both give or take a .03 depending on where measured.

 

[sundance44s]

Thanks again Scrat .

 

[StrawHat]

Let me reword this, maybe even make it clearer!

I use enough powder to get me to within 1/4" of a full case. then, I seat a lubed bullet (currently the Lyman 450229) using the bullet to compress the powder. If using a heavier bullet, ie Lyman 454424 you will need to reduce the charge.

With black powder, there is to be no (or very little) air space.

One reason is because original bullets had no crimp grooves and relied on the case full of powder to prevent telescoping the bullet into the case.

Another reason is with large cartridges, an air space has caused ringed chambers. I have never had a ringed chamber and much like the theory that being hit by a truck is painful, have no desire to test the theory.

One of the few things I accepted as gospel without testing!

I believe that black powders burn rate (explosion rate actually) is significantly greater than that of smokeless and therefore the air space between bullet and powder allows the bullet to act as an obstruction. I have not heard of it with handgun cartridges but again, I am not willing to test it.

I do know, when the gov't reduced the charge in black powder cartridges they either included wads, used a cardboard tube or switched to a bulkier grade of powder to fill the gap.

I am surprised R&D does not have a bit more info for reloading.

I am aware that the cylinders are sometimes used in cowboy matches. Perhaps on those forums you would find more info.

 

[scrat]

ya the cylinder is nice but the 3 inch 3 page pamphlet does not tell anything. Mostly about the original history of conversion cylinders, Big Bold print not to use in brass frames, Big bold print not to dry fire. Use cowboy ammuniton. Safety stuff and thats about it. One sentence that says "Black Powder reloads can be loaded with up to a maximum 34 grains of FPG black powder or black powder equivalent."

 

[dwave]

Just to throw it out there, I load Round balls into my .45 Colt and it is very fun. Fill up the case to near the top (space left for the RB) and put a RB in and crimp it in place. Not as accurate as a conical in my gun, but still fun.

 

[scrat]

Dwave that makes sence. Well as soon as i get more empty cases im going to have fun in reloading.

 

[sundance44s]

Scrat ..that part about not dry fireing on the R&D Cylinder Is serious ...it has floating fireing pins and they will warp easy with just one dry fire ...I found out the hard way , loaded five for the wife to shoot and she lost count and dry fired on the sixth empty chamber ...it ruined the fireing pin ...the good part is they do sell raplacement pins for about 2 bucks each .
The Kirst cylinder only has one fireing pin mounted in the rear sheild and it is spring loaded ...I always use the Kirst in the wife`s pistol now , and she had dryfired on it several times ( same reason ) and never hurt it .

 

[scrat]

wow good to know thanks.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

I usually load all 6, but then I'm not going to be carrying it once it's loaded. On the few occasions where I wasn't going to just load and shoot, I load an empty hull as a precaution, in case I screw up. Someday I'm going to break down and buy a snap cap instead.

 

[scrat]

just make one. Take a fired case. press in a bullet to the correct length. make sure you crimp it if you did not size it. Then fill the primer hole with silicone. then let dry. Once its try. its highly adviseable to paint the entire bullet. So you will be able to quickly identify which is the snap cap.

 

[StrawHat]

just make one. Take a fired case. press in a bullet to the correct length. make sure you crimp it if you did not size it. Then fill the primer hole with silicone. then let dry. Once its try. its highly adviseable to paint the entire bullet. So you will be able to quickly identify which is the snap cap.

Or turn down a nylon rod to fit in the primer pocket, than cut to length.

 

[sundance44s]

I ended up just takeing one of the fireing pins out of my R&D cylinder ..and just always make sure my empty is where the pin is missing ..makes it easy to find the empty chamber looking from the rear too . I `ve always loaded only 5 in a revolver for safty reasons anyway ..and with the big 45 colt if I can`t kill it with 5 shots ..I probally won`t kill it with 6 eaither .