school me on the 870 trigger group please - j lock? plastic? metal?

[Leaky Waders]

Hi,

I was looking at an 870 express today for duck hunting... this particular remington 'featured' the j lock on a plastic trigger housing.

The store 'Dick's Sporting Goods' didn't haven any Wingmasters to view. I bought a 28 gauge Wingmaster last year (while still in Mississippi) and it has the lawyer lock but a nicely fitted (I think aluminum) trigger group.

I thought Remington quit putting the lock on their shotguns....

So...is the j-lock still on their guns? Or is this surplus still in the store?

Is the express trigger group plastic? I know that the 870 has a long track record of relaible service...but that was before their refurbishment with plastic parts...

Any info would be helpful, as well as a reliable new/used gun store in the Indian Head, Maryland area.

V/R,

LW

 

[Fred Fuller]

Word was that Remington was going to stop putting the J-schlock safety in guns. Haven't seen any new production yet without it though, p'raps they plan to use up available parts before making the changeover. Brownells has started selling 'old style' non-locking safety buttons again, while the lawyer lock wa in play they wouldn't sell 'em- that has to mean something has changed.

Remington has made several changes in the Express line to the detriment of quality in order to hold the price line. First there was the different mag spring retention system involving dimples in the mag tube. Then came plastic trigger plates, then the locking safety abomination, now it's MIM parts in stressful applications like extractors. I personally would not buy a new production Express gun these days given any choice at all, there are lots of good old 870s- Wingmaster, Police and Express- out there (but fewer as time goes on and people wake up).

Can't help with a store in Md, maybe Dave will chime in here...

lpl/nc (really disappointed in Big Green)

 

[Dave McCracken]

While the plastic parts are offensive to some, I've heard of no breakdowns from them.

Agreed with Lee on old 870s, though we should stop telling folks.

Can't help you on a gun store near Indian Head, closest I've dealt with is Atlantic Guns in Silver Spring. Good outfit.....

 

[Leaky Waders]

Hmmm that's dissappointing.

When I asked the clerk about it...he said the trigger group was here to stay...he said it was a 'Maryland thing'. I pointed out that Brownings don't have it and he didnt have a rebuttal to that.

I'll shop around and see what I can find. I'd like an 870...express or wingmaster and will look at stores as I get to know the area for one of them.

I may just end up with another browning though - the bottom ejection is nice to people when you're in the middle of the blind.

I'll have to write Remington and let them know the dollars that they've loss by me, and my two sons not liking the j-locking plastic parts. I'm a buyer, not a browser...so it's actual dollars lost...not a philosophical loss.

L.W.

 

[ArmedBear]

What is the problem with the J lock? If you don't use it, does it hurt anything? The dimples don't hurt anything, either, unless you want to add a magazine extension, which you won't for hunting in the US, anyway.

WRT the plastic trigger group, mine's worked fine so far. Many thousands of rounds. Still looks, works like new. Trigger guard won't rust, anyway, when I sweat on it.

For $235 new, I don't complain. The 870 Express is a great gun for its intended purposes (e.g. waterfowling).

The Wingmaster is nicer in many ways, and worth the extra money. Bummer if you bang it up, though.

The Express is not a direct competitor with the BPS; the Wingmaster is. There is a huge price difference. The Express is intended to compete with the Mossberg 500, which also has plastic parts, and an aluminum receiver, unlike the 870's. Does anyone complain about Mossbergs? I haven't heard any complaints.

Decide if you want a gun in the 870 Express price class. If not, then compare the Wingmaster to the BPS, etc., and make your choice between them.

 

[Leaky Waders]

"What is the problem with the J lock? If you don't use it, does it hurt anything?"

Basically...I believe the lock will affect resale value. I mean if you have one with a lock and a later or older model without the lock sitting side by side in a used rack...which one are you gonna buy? I don't believe the lock has enhanced Remington sales though...i could be wrong. I'd hate to purchase a new j-locked one only to find out that next week Remington is filling the shelves with lockless ones.

As for the plastic parts - I don't know if i like them or not; but, the legacy of the 870...the many years of reliable service has not involved the plastic parts that are being added on today. Only time will tell if these parts are as durable as the metal ones of yesteryear. Are they as durable as aluminum or steel when exposed to repeated seasons of 0 degree or below cold wet duckhunting and then the rapid warming to 70-80 degrees when placed in a heated cabin? Will they crack or warp? I don't know. But I do know that the metal ones held up fine.

As for the dimples...I don't know about those. My guns are limited by 3 shots anyways for hunting.

I looked at a new wingmaster and a used one side by side today. The used one is in very nice shape but is 2 3/4 inches...not the best load for ducks. It doesnt have a ventilated barrel either. It looks very cool - old school. The new one was nice as well. Yes it had a j-lock, but was oh so sweet shucking. The used one was 200 less than the new one. I didn't see any plastic trigger apparatus on either.

I'm still undecided but will defiantely not get an express unless I find one with a little more metal in it.

Thanks for the input.

L.W.

PS I have a 28 gauge wingmaster - new one purchased earlier this year. It is sweet. It has the lock too, but I don't care. I'd probably be buried with that gun if I didn't have two sons to fight over it when I'm gone...it's that nice to shoot.

 

[1911user]

It's not that hard or expensive to replace the j-lock safety with a regular one. Midwayusa has them for $3 each. I'm sure other places sell them also.

I personally wouldn't have them on any 870 I owned but others may differ. I would buy one with the j-lock if everything else was OK and the price was right, but it'd be replaced quickly.

 

[Fred Fuller]

"What is the problem with the J lock? If you don't use it, does it hurt anything?"

Problem with the J lock is that it can be locked without the key, but it cannot be UNlocked without it. It was reliably related shortly after this "feature" appeared that it was turning up inadvertently locked on the firing line in various shotgun classes in the hands of unwitting students. Remington does not include this "feature" on its serious (law enforcement) line of shotguns. That's a clue...

lpl/nc (only J lock safeties I own are the loose parts in the parts box from changing them out for other people, maybe they will be curios some day)

 

[bosshoff]

Brownells and Midway sell the Wingmaster safety part. I really took only about a minute and a half to change out the J-lock, and it gave me a ton of self-satisfaction to do so
I have four 870's. I have an Express for mud, a HD for HD, a police 2-3/4 wingmaster for a Truck/ATV gun, and a 30" Wingmaster Magnum for Upland birds and the range. (I need to get adjustable chokes installed, but I have not found someone who will install chokes compatible with the Express's Rem-Choke system, yet. )
CDNN has some screaming deals on 870's with rifle sights, or cruise gunbroker for used. I picked up my 30" wingmaster for $221 including shipping, plus the $25 for my friendly FFL.

 

[GRB]

I've owned a Remington 870 Express for somewhere of about 20 - 22 years now. No plastic parts that I know of except for the magazine follower. It has never had a malfunction due to a part failing.

While the plastic parts are offensive to some, I've heard of no breakdowns from them.

You may be able to say things like this now but, tell me again after 20 years of hard use how none of those plastic parts in important places have failed. I would not bet my life on a Remington 870 with as many plastic parts as some of you have indicated they now contain - and I certainly have bet my life on my 870 in the past.

I was hoping to by my son an 870 next year before deer season opens up; now I will have to strongly reconsider that purchase. I much prefer guns that I can pass down to my son and daughter, those same guns that they will someday be able to pass along to their children and on and on and on. With that in mind, plastic parts will probably not stand the test of time.

I may just have to make an inquiry of Remington and; if they are going to continue to manufacture them with plastic parts, I will have to send in a complaint a month until they stop the practice or I drop. Just too good a gun to ruin with plastic.

best regards,
Glenn B

 

[GRB]

I just sent Remington an email about the plastic parts. They have been pretty good at answering past inquiries; time will tell if they answer this one.

 

[TrapperReady]

Just a comment about 870s. I currently have three:

1958 20ga 870 Wingmaster - no dimples, no j-lock, metal trigger group

2005 28ga 870 Express - no dimples, j-lock, plastic trigger group

2005 12ga 870 SP - dimples, j-lock, plastic trigger group

I've not had any real problems with any of them. When it was new to me, the 20ga fed a shell out of the mag and under the bolt, tying up the action. That was fixed by cleaning... although at the time it was a pain, since the lifter isn't a flextab model.

The 12ga was used for a bunch of hunting this year. I have the stock 28" ribbed barrel and a spare Express 22" rifle-sighted barrel, and used that gun for hunting ducks, geese, grouse, deer, woodcock and turkey in all kinds of weather. Frankly, I LIKE the dimpled mag tube. If you are going to be swapping out the plug with any regularity, it's about a 10 second process.

The j-lock still bugs me (mostly on principle), even though I haven't had any problems with it. When the hunting season is over and I start doing some work on my guns again, I'll probably swap them out.