Self Defense Outside the Home--Priorities and Thoughts

[Kleanbore]

t is a very good OP. Valuable tenets of self defense. Important stuff.

Thanks. A number of people in various walks of life contributed over the years.

Here's'a bonus question.

If you are about to be victimized in a "knockout game" (in which someone rapidly approaches you from behind while you are walking and strikes you in the head), (1) what is your warning, and (2) what do you do?

Hint: the game includes making a video record.

(1) If someone with a cell phone is recording you and panning as you walk,

(2) ....move off line, stop, and turn immediately.

If it's a false alarm, it hasn't cost you anything.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The Good Colonel might have been a great man, but he was not Moses bringing stone tablets down from the mountain.

I bet he was there when Moses did though

 

[Thibaut]

Not sure I completely understand the bonus question, Kleanbore, but.....I think if you are absolutely aware of your surroundings you would "feel" someone approaching you from behind before they could strike you. Hopefully. Then, I would probably drop and turn for my best counter attack.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Not sure I completely understand the bonus question, Kleanbore, but.....I think if you are absolutely aware of your surroundings you would "feel" someone approaching you from behind before they could strike you. Hopefully. Then, I would probably drop and turn for my best counter attack.

You can't be that aware of your surroundings for any extended period of time, the stress would get you before the bad guy did.

 

[Thibaut]

You can't be that aware of your surroundings for any extended period of time, the stress would get you before the bad guy did.

I know that you are right but it gives me false confidence to think that I can. The other day, in fact, I was in line and a guy got way too close behind me and I reacted. To prove your point, he got "way too close," before I reacted. Not a good feeling but one I won't forget.

 

[jeepnik]

Do you have a basis for that assertion?

What do you classify as "the basics"?

What, in the OP, do you consider either "convoluted" or "complex"?

I'm still here.

Just what I said in my first post

All of the stuff the "experts" tell us we need to pay them to learn.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Don't preach about gun safety and then get in a car and use a Cell Phone.

While our media tends to focus on gun deaths, you are far more likely to be killed by another driver than a madman with a gun. The real threat to you and me is a driver looking at a cell phone, not a crazy ISIS terrorist or gangster with a gun. While over 40,000 people died in car accidents in 2016, 33,000 people were killed with a gun – the vast majority of those being suicide. Statistically, you are about four times likely to be killed by another driver than a person with a gun. This needs to change.

Change starts with you – get off your phone while driving. In many cases you are driving locally and your phone can wait 10-15 minutes. Close that deal with Nike later. Our government officials need to do more

https://www.newbedfordguide.com/dri...le-than-guns-and-its-getting-worse/2018/02/12

 

[Kleanbore]

you are far more likely to be killed by another driver than a madman with a gun. The real threat to you and me is a driver looking at a cell phone,

Yep.

Change starts with you – get off your phone while driving. In many cases you are driving locally and your phone can wait 10-15 minutes. Close that deal with Nike later. Our government officials need to do more

Indeed!

 

[Kleanbore]

Just what I said in my first post

You have said nothing actionable.

All of the stuff the "experts" tell us we need to pay them to learn.

To my knowledge, you have paid nothing. This discussion is free of charge.

On the other hand, you do not appear to have learned anything, either .

 

[Kleanbore]

Not sure I completely understand the bonus question, Kleanbore, but.....I think if you are absolutely aware of your surroundings you would "feel" someone approaching you from behind before they could strike you. Hopefully. Then, I would probably drop and turn for my best counter attack.

Surely you jest.

How does one "feel" someone behind one?

On any busy walkway, there are people in front, behind, and around corners, moving at various speeds in multiple directions, pausing, waiting....

The VAST majority are as innocent as you are.

If you were to somehow "feel" someone approaching you from behind. and at any place and point at time there may be several, to "drop and turn" for a "counter attack" would be completely inappropriate.

The "knockout game" occurs very rarely, but the consequences can be dire, and one will have little opportunity for avoidance.

The presence of someone taking video of you as you walk is a possible indication.

You will have very little time to check it out.

Moving off line, turning, and stopping can afford the intended victim a chance to identify a threat, and it may even disrupt the attack.

 

[fireside44]

I see little chance of needing to drive from a parking lot quickly--just to get into the car without delay

I have to agree with @bdickens, I back in all the time because:

It continues with the old saying, "don't go to stupid places with stupid people or do stupid things". "Stupid places" can mean bars, rough neighborhoods, public demonstrations and protests, etc. And if there is a place where you would not want to go without a gun, don't go there.

I go to some of these places and areas routinely in my work. Being able to fly out of the parking lot is very important because I have to load tools back into truck which is slower than unloading. I've yet to see it draw attention while I back in and even if it did there are places I have to be where I cannot carry and i always have a gun in the truck. Of course if you back into the spot in your 500sl Benz that's different than a cargo van. In the hood a cargo van is the cops or a service truck that is the target for smash and grab so the driver isn't the focus, generally.

One thing your post didn't really mention is personal presentation. A big difference in how things play out in some of these hoods if you are 5'2", white as a ghost and dressed in slacks and a dress shirt vs 6'2" of questionable ethnic background with unkempt facial hair and urban wear. Not that you can change your race but when you work down shady Lane if you keep awareness and dress like the critters in your area people generally assume you could be a criminal (or resident) and the awareness can kind of come across as an aggressive attitude because you are constantly scanning for trouble which, in the criminal realm, outwardly looks the same as scanning for the next victim.

Lastly, when working a rough neighborhood it pays to be firm yet kind to street people. They are there all day, I'm not. They are the ones that can tell you "they sell drugs right behind where you park" followed by "nobody will mess with you or your vehicle because they don't want the cops cutting into their activities". I had great luck parking near drug dealers tbh. Lastly, a few bucks thrown or a kindness shown to a street person puts them in a position where they do not want other street urchins messing with their potential meal ticket or their friend. This has played out in my favor more times than I can count. I had a half dozen people telling the others down there at the homeless shelter not to mess with "my man's rig". They burgled someone else's car.

 

[Armored farmer]

I have a few rules:
A: Dont go to stupid places
B: Dont do stupid things
C: Dont hang with stupid people
D: Stay clear of booze or you'll find yourself doing A,B, and C!
E: Nothing good happens after midnight.

 

[Kleanbore]

I back in all the time because: I go to some of these places and areas routinely in my work. Being able to fly out of the parking lot is very important because I have to load tools back into truck which is slower than unloading.

That's an excellent reason--for those who have it.

I've yet to see it draw attention while I back in...

It's not that so much as the additional time it takes from your entry into the lot (which may have brought you to the attention of evil-doers) to your getting into a building.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Don't preach about gun safety and then get in a car and use a Cell Phone.

While our media tends to focus on gun deaths, you are far more likely to be killed by another driver than a madman with a gun. The real threat to you and me is a driver looking at a cell phone, not a crazy ISIS terrorist or gangster with a gun. While over 40,000 people died in car accidents in 2016, 33,000 people were killed with a gun – the vast majority of those being suicide. Statistically, you are about four times likely to be killed by another driver than a person with a gun. This needs to change.

Change starts with you – get off your phone while driving. In many cases you are driving locally and your phone can wait 10-15 minutes. Close that deal with Nike later. Our government officials need to do more

https://www.newbedfordguide.com/dri...le-than-guns-and-its-getting-worse/2018/02/12

That's so true it hurts

 

[Armored farmer]

Don't preach about gun safety and then get in a car and use a Cell Phone.

While our media tends to focus on gun deaths, you are far more likely to be killed by another driver than a madman with a gun. The real threat to you and me is a driver looking at a cell phone, not a crazy ISIS terrorist or gangster with a gun. While over 40,000 people died in car accidents in 2016, 33,000 people were killed with a gun – the vast majority of those being suicide. Statistically, you are about four times likely to be killed by another driver than a person with a gun. This needs to change.

Change starts with you – get off your phone while driving. In many cases you are driving locally and your phone can wait 10-15 minutes. Close that deal with Nike later. Our government officials need to do more

https://www.newbedfordguide.com/dri...le-than-guns-and-its-getting-worse/2018/02/12

So true.
You have a good vantage point from a semi.
It is scary how many people are focused on their phones. They may be looking down the road when you meet...but their phone is at chest level below the dash in their other hand.

 

[azrn]

I like your rules Armored Farmer. If anyone remembers the use of the color code of alertness given to us by Col. Jeff Cooper. Green, Yellow, and Red. I have found it very helpful in my everyday activities.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I have a few rules:
A: Dont go to stupid places
B: Dont do stupid things
C: Dont hang with stupid people
D: Stay clear of booze or you'll find yourself doing A,B, and C!
E: Nothing good happens after midnight.

Bravo! only in my town, we say do not go out at Night. (it's a jungle, and the predators come out in full force at sun down.)

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I like your rules Armored Farmer. If anyone remembers the use of the color code of alertness given to us by Col. Jeff Cooper. Green, Yellow, and Red. I have found it very helpful in my everyday activities.

Ummm, White, Yellow, Orange, Red, Black?

 

[jeepnik]

You have said nothing actionable.

To my knowledge, you have paid nothing. This discussion is free of charge.

On the other hand, you do not appear to have learned anything, either .

If you saw nothing "actionable" you didn't comprehend the three simple lines I wrote.

Any your quite wrong. I've learned much over the decades. It's just that much of what I read these days is a rehash of what has been known for more than a century.

 

[Kleanbore]

If you saw nothing "actionable" you didn't comprehend the three simple lines I wrote.

I respectfully submit that no one could know from those generalities how to avoid or evade an attack timely, or to react to it effectively.

Your statements are sorely lacking in specificity.

They put the time to learn new skills at the moment they need to be used.

"Head up"-- Good, necessary, but not sufficient.

"Eyes and ears open"--For what? How would one know what to be concerned about? Would one try to observe and interpret everything going on, all the way out to the horizon?

"Think before you act"--well, okay.

 

[94045]

Don't preach about gun safety and then get in a car and use a Cell Phone.

While our media tends to focus on gun deaths, you are far more likely to be killed by another driver than a madman with a gun. The real threat to you and me is a driver looking at a cell phone, not a crazy ISIS terrorist or gangster with a gun. While over 40,000 people died in car accidents in 2016, 33,000 people were killed with a gun – the vast majority of those being suicide. Statistically, you are about four times likely to be killed by another driver than a person with a gun. This needs to change.

Change starts with you – get off your phone while driving. In many cases you are driving locally and your phone can wait 10-15 minutes. Close that deal with Nike later. Our government officials need to do more

https://www.newbedfordguide.com/dri...le-than-guns-and-its-getting-worse/2018/02/12

I've forgotten the exact numbers but it's something like 5x as many people are killed by failure to use turn signals as texting while driving. Amazing how little enforcement priority seems to exist for the greater threat.

 

[jeepnik]

I respectfully submit that no one could know from those generalities how to avoid or evade an attack timely, or to react to it effectively.

Your statements are sorely lacking in specificity.

They put the time to learn new skills at the moment they need to be used.

"Head up"-- Good, necessary, but not sufficient.

"Eyes and ears open"--For what? How would one know what to be concerned about? Would one try to observe and interpret everything going on, all the way out to the horizon?

"Think before you act"--well, okay.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. I do what has worked in several countries and numerous cities in this one. Others are welcome to do what works for them.

 

[JTHunter]

How many of you have driven on motorcycles for an extended number of years?
I used to commute to work ~25 miles one way through St. Louis city into the county many years ago. In fact, when I got my first car, I had only about 1,500 miles behind the wheel but about 15,000 miles driving different motorcycles. Driving those 'bikes taught me to keep my eyes on swivels all the time. Despite the fact that all the traffic on the interstates were going the same direction, people not looking at those "lane changes" could catch you as they came out of left field at you. Using the mirrors on both sides also taught me to glance in the glass windows of stores. Depending on the angle, you might be surprised how much you can see behind you just by glancing over your shoulder at a storefront you are passing. You won't see clearly but you might detect the motion of somebody approaching you, giving you 1-2 seconds of warning.
Of course, this only works in limited areas.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. I do what has worked in several countries and numerous cities in this one. Others are welcome to do what works for them.

But you haven't told us what worked for you

 

[Trunk Monkey]

How many of you have driven on motorcycles for an extended number of years?
I used to commute to work ~25 miles one way through St. Louis city into the county many years ago. In fact, when I got my first car, I had only about 1,500 miles behind the wheel but about 15,000 miles driving different motorcycles. Driving those 'bikes taught me to keep my eyes on swivels all the time. Despite the fact that all the traffic on the interstates were going the same direction, people not looking at those "lane changes" could catch you as they came out of left field at you. Using the mirrors on both sides also taught me to glance in the glass windows of stores. Depending on the angle, you might be surprised how much you can see behind you just by glancing over your shoulder at a storefront you are passing. You won't see clearly but you might detect the motion of somebody approaching you, giving you 1-2 seconds of warning.
Of course, this only works in limited areas.

One of the scariest moments of my life was a day I was riding home on my motorcycle and I looked around me and realized that every driver around me had a phone in their hand