Serial Number Question- Want to Restore a destroyed Serial Number to save an old gun

[Agouti]

Is there anyway one can identify a destroyed serial number and somehow restore it, or reapply it to another area of a firearm, if you make sure to use the same serial number?

Before you make any assumptions, this is not mine. I have no information on it's past, nor have even seen it, only that the firearm in question is rather old, an old colt .45 automatic.
I don't want to damage the firearm in any way, at most electrostenciling the same serial that was destroyed on some other part of the gun to comply with the law.

And the person who does own it, didn't purchase it, he inherited it.

I just don't want to see this thing thrown into a lake somewhere.

 

[Sistema1927]

Honestly, I would have the owner contact their nearest ATF field office and explain the situation. I have heard of cases where serial numbers have been restored or replaced. Even though the ATF is often presented as the villain, here and other places on the internet, there are plenty of decent agents who will help you out.

 

[jmr40]

If the gun was made prior to 1968 it is my understanding that a serial number is not necessary. Many made before that date do not have them. But then, how do you prove when it was made without a serial number?

 

[GlowinPontiac]

if it has obviously been ground off then i wouldnt even go near it.

i dont see how a serial number can just disappear. even old rusted to hell guns will still have one after you wire wheel the rust off.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If you know the serial number, you're in business. Depending on the age of the gun, I'd leave well enough alone. Colt has serialized weapons for a very long time. They often serialized slides and barrels too. If the number is still readable anywhere on the weapon, it's probably OK. That said, even if is pre-68, some localities will take great issue anyway. I wouldn't pitch it, but I would not use it as a main carry gun either.

If you get the serial, put in under the grips if you'll be happier. Or as said, call the ATF and ask what to do.

 

[Old Fuff]

An important question is, "just how old is this gun?" There are various ways to roughly date the pistol depending on certain changes that were made over time, including markings.

Before you do anything else, remove the firing pin stop and see if a number is stamped on the slide just in front of where the plate would go. If so, that is the serial number. In the event that the pistol was a commercial one, rather then a military issue, the number would be preceeded with the letter "C", but the "C" is probably not on the slide. Military models were numbered in a different series, and did not have a letter prefix.

 

[Jayb]

I have a similar situation. I bought (from an individual) a semi-auto whose serial number was readable, but the entire frame had been polished to the point that any wear would begin to remove the number. I called the ATF field office, in Ft. Wayne, Indiana and was told that if I could "re-do" the serial number without it looking like "bubba did it", that I could do it myself.

I do not have documentation to back this up, and I have not decided whether to do it myself, or pay the freight/cost to return it to the factory.

 

[BBQJOE]

I saw them restore a serial number once on CSI................

 

[Kharn]

How was the original serial number removed? A ground-off number requires a different method than one that was punched into unreadability, etc.

Kharn

 

[GRIZ22]

I have a similar situation. I bought (from an individual) a semi-auto whose serial number was readable, but the entire frame had been polished to the point that any wear would begin to remove the number. I called the ATF field office, in Ft. Wayne, Indiana and was told that if I could "re-do" the serial number without it looking like "bubba did it", that I could do it myself.



I've heard of and seen 1911s that were rebuilt during WWII that had the serial number or some of the other markings that were ground off during the rebuild. The "United States Property" mark seems to be the most likely to go as it doesn't appear to be as deeply engraved as the serial number. Those with the serial number obscured were just stamped with whatever number die was available and does look bubba'd. No these weren't something that someone had stolen or whatever, I've seen this on issued 1911s in the Army.

 

[geekWithA.45]

A point of legal order here:

From what I understand, at least at the level of some state laws, is that it's not a crime to posess a gun w/out a serial number, but it IS a crime to posess a gun with a serial number that has been DEFACED. If that's the case, then the age of the firearm isn't relevant, and it sound like it could possibly apply in this case. (?)

In any event, from what I understand, it's permissible to restore a serial number to legibility.


(disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, your mileage may vary, etc blah blah)

 

[Don Gwinn]

We're getting way ahead of ourselves. For all we know, it's just rust--the OP hasn't even seen it. If you really want to get involved, I'd ask to see the gun and see if the SN is actually obscured in a way that matters.

If it's just rust over the SN, it's very likely you can recover it even if there's pitting.

 

[GunTech]

You can always remark the serial number on a gun if it is obliterated or unreadable.

 

[ArmedBear]

AFAIK serial numbers were not required before GCA 1968, though many guns did have them, just like electric razors and toasters.

If the gun's very old, it may be a non-issue.

Anyone know more about the legal details?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Even if it is pre-68, if it HAD a number, it MUST have a number.

Now, if you could prove it was removed prior to '68--you might be able to argue that in court, but no LEO will buy that one (if it ever comes up).

And 10K in legal fees later...well, as said, I'd put the 'number' on the gun somewhere so you can at least say 'oh yeh, they put the number back on -- it got damaged at some point, it's right their under the grip'.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

ESPECIALLY with regard to martial 1911s, the BATFE is well aware that there are innumerable war trophies and bring-backs that have had the serial number and US Property markings removed or defaced. They have a procedure set up to issue a new serial number and have it engraved on the pistol. I don't think the owner gets to engrave it himself, though, I believe it must be done either by the BATFE or perhaps by certain professional gunsmiths they trust to carry out such work.

Check the forum at www.m1911.org and search around the Collectors Corner forum area. I'm sure this has been discussed there.

 

[Agouti]

I'm sorry to have not mentioned it sooner.
The gun WAS, supposedly, as believed by the current owner, purposefully defaced.

However, I believe he acquired it quite some time ago.

I'll check out that site too.

 

[gezzer]

ATF has prosecuted serial number removal and re-stamping on colt replica black powder cap and ball pistols. This convicted, rightfully, fakers on an antique sale.

Seems ALL serial number alterations are illegal no matter what the age.

When someone did it intentionally I have no sorrow.

Changing the location or re-stamping a serial number requires ATF approval in WRIGHTING not a phone call.

A manufacturer may re-stamp but that is about the only exception and that has been held as a no-no if on NFA weapon

 

[Agouti]

There is a nice fellow at the www.m1911.org forum who is willing to help me out. Thanks everyone, especially Aguila Blanca, for recommending them.