Setback problems with 45acp

[TurboFC3S]

Hey guys, I'm using new Hornady dies and a Lee FCD on a Dillon 550 to load Montana Gold 230gr JHP's in mixed brass. My problem is I can't get enough neck tension, no matter what I try, to keep from having setback problems. Most rounds I can squeeze with my fingers and move the bullet back a few tenths.

I can turn the Lee FCD in until my neck is crimped to .469", but it doesn't seem to help. And the FCD almost looks like it's shaving off metal, it puts a burr on the neck and there are small shavings on the shellplate of my Dillon. The Cam is really rough going in and out of the FCD too.

I was thinking it was a problem with the FCD, so this morning I tried setting up my Hornady dies to seat and crimp in one operation. Set it to .469", but am still having setback problems.

Any ideas? It's getting frustrating, just bought a case of Montana Gold bullets, and want to get busy loading :banghead:

 

[rcmodel]

Either your sizer die is over-size and not squeezing the case down enough. Measure some sized cases and make sure the case I.D. is smaller then the bullets to start with.

Or your expander is too big and opening up the sized case too much.
Turn it down by chucking it in a drill and using black emery paper on it. You want the expanded case I.D. to be .002" or so smaller then bullet diameter.

Crimping is never going to make up for insufficient neck tension to start with.

The FCD, or even the seating die can squeeze the taper crimp well undersize if adjusted too far down.
But the harder case springs back more then the softer bullet.
So, too much crimp can actually make them looser, not tighter.

rc

 

[jfh]

To start with--two issues come to mind:

1. Tell us about those "mixed brass" cases: how many reloads, what dominant brand, etc., etc.

2. Since you are still having setback with a 3-die setup, it also is possible you simply don't have your die setup done properly.

As we know, the post-sizing feature of the Lee FCD can reduce neck tension--when you had this die in the workflow, did you experience consistent and noticable post-sizing?

Tell us in detail how your die setup is done....

Jim H.

 

[TurboFC3S]

Alright, inside of sized cased measure .448" ... bullets measure .450" or .451". So all good there.

Here's what I just noticed. The insert in the FCD was really rough on the part that does the taper. It had a stair-step look to the machining. And I was noticing that the crimp it does shaves metal off and leaves a burr ... so while the final outside diameter of the crimp may be .469", maybe it wasn't putting a crimp on but just shaving metal down to that diameter.

So I used 600 grit then 200 grit sandpaper to polish in tool marks off the inside of the insert. I just ran 10 rounds through after doing that, and it seems to have made a difference. No more burr or metal shavings, and a .469" diameter neck now seems to have tension too it.

Could that be my problem or should I keep looking? Anybody else noticed this with a FCD?

 

[rcmodel]

.469" is almost a little too much if you run mixed cases and some of them have thicker necks.

Outside neck should measure no less then .469" on any of them.

You might do well to sort your brass by brand until you get this completely sorted out.

rc

 

[Ben Shepherd]

One other thing you need to double check here-

What is your slug diameter? It's a possibility you got a bad batch that's too small.

 

[TurboFC3S]

I agree rc, many measure .470 after crimp ... only the thinner stuff like RP measures .469"

Bullets seem to measure good Ben

Just did another 10 loads ... had one with poor neck tension after crimping with my polished FCD. But it was a RP, which from my experience is the most common offender. I might sort out the RP brass, but all others seem to be fine.

But before polishing the FCD insert it was more like 5-6 out of 10 that I could push the bullet back just by squeezing.

 

[The Bushmaster]

If you put too much crimp on a .45 ACP you stand to have two other problems crop up...Round will go too far into the chamber and crimping too much can loosen the bullet by ballooning the case just below the crimp.

As noted above sort your cases and determine if it is just one brand of case causing this or is it all the cases.

Time to break out the calipers and start measuring everything.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Just did another 10 loads ... had one with poor neck tension after crimping with my polished FCD. But it was a RP, which from my experience is the most common offender. I might sort out the RP brass, but all others seem to be fine.

Which is why, years ago, I threw out litterally buckets full of RP pistol brass. They have this problem in every pistol caliber I've loaded. I've even seen(more than once) Remington green and white box 230 ball with a slug you could push in with your finger easily.

 

[D. Manley]

Some good suggestions above. Very first thing to check is to be sure your sizing die is as low as possible. You can't overcome insufficient sizing with increased crimp.

 

[Doug b]

Yep RP pistol brass goes straight to the recycle bin.

 

[TurboFC3S]

Well it seems as though addressing those two things has fixed the problem ...

#1 - ditching RP brass
#2 - polishing out the rough tool marks on the Lee FCD insert that caused metal shavings and a burr along the rim

Just finished loading up almost 200 more rounds - 4.7gr Titegroup under 230gr Montana Gold JHP with COL of 1.230" - and after those two changes haven't yet found one that can be pushed into the case with finger pressure.

 

[Walkalong]

Lots of good advise here, and rcmodels first post is dead on.

I use a horrid mix of range brass.

I polished my expander a bit many years ago. I have 3 .45 sizers. One RCBS that will not size RP brass down enough, one Redding sizer that is just about a perfect compromise for mixed cases, and one RCBS sizer that is so tight it will make loaded rounds look like an inverted coke bottle.

I crimp very lightly in a 4th step. I do not use an FCD die and never will on my .45's.


Glad you got it fixed.

 

[Doug b]

Turbo notice I said pistol brass,I personally find Rem. rifle brass acceptable, not superior but acceptable.

 

[TurboFC3S]

Agreed Doug, all the Rem rifle brass I've loaded has been just fine ... and I haven't noticed any problems with RP brass in other pistol calibers either, just 45 that's a problem for some reason.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hey guys...!! Can I have all that RP brass? Evidently my Lee .45 ACP resizing die works better the the rest of you guys'. I haven't had any problems with any revolver or pistol RP cases...

 

[D. Manley]

Hey guys...!! Can I have all that RP brass? Evidently my Lee .45 ACP resizing die works better the the rest of you guys'. I haven't had any problems with any revolver or pistol RP cases...
__________________

I'll call seconds, I have no problems with it in any pistol caliber.

 

[lgbloader]

I just lost a bunch of brass so any donations could be kindly sent to me.

LGB

 

[Doug b]

One man's junk is another's treasure I reckon.

 

[Steve C]

Check the diameter of you bullets, sounds like they may be a bit small. They should be .451" for jacketed. If they are undersized then you can't get the crimp tight enough with the FC die and the case tension will be insufficient. There is also the slight chance your expander is oversize.

BTW you can not over crimp with the Lee FC die. It will not reduce case sized below SAAMI minimum or maximum dimensions.

Personally I don't have any problems with R-P brass. Its a bit thinner than Winchester and Federals but I can crimp jacketed bullet tight enough with the Lee FC die to pass the "thumb pressure against the bench test" and get no set back in any of my .45's. I also prefer to use Remington brass when loading with lead bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

You can over crimp with any die, and as with all machined parts, the carbide ring could be undersized. Tolerances are a fact of life. Out of spec happens.