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Shaking hands

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by bluejeans, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. george29

    george29 Member

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    Spoke to my Pastor yesterday, he is pro carry in Church. According to him there are at least 4 guys that carry into church including a guy that sits in the lobby during service.
     
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  2. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    :thumbup:
     
  3. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    So now you need to get together with the four and come up with a plan.
     
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  4. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Trivia moment:

    The handshake was actually invented as a gesture to show weakness by offering your weapon hand without a weapon. It created a scenario you would not put yourself in if you did not trust the person in ancient times.
    Even in more modern times like the old west things were not what you see on the movies. In the movies what you are seeing are the ideals of the 1940s-1950s transposed onto the old west, not the real old west.
    If you rode up to someone's camp you were almost asking to be shot. That was the action of a bandit or criminal trying to sneak in or attack with speed or stealth.

    In ancient times even approaching strangers from a distance while traveling was rude and hostile. If you did approach you let the other side know from a far distance.
    When groups did meet sometimes an envoy or scout or member of the group would shake hands, a gesture that left the men in harms way, and by showing vulnerability to the other you were showing a level of trust.


    So it is quite ironic to want to shake someone's hand without being vulnerable, as that was actually the entire point of shaking hands.
     
  5. tactikel

    tactikel Member

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    Our Church is a prohibited area. I carry Mace, a knife, and a cell phone at all times.i know of at least two parishioners who always carry.
     
  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Is your church prohibited because of Illinois law, or church policy?
     
  7. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    Why not get a metal detector wand?
     
  8. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Metal detector wand? If someone intends trouble the first person shot in a room is the guy obviously acting as the security and/or armed. I always found security manned by one or two people without any other the most pointless facade in the world for stopping such things. Those people die before they know a problem is coming, and then all the people screened and disarmed are vulnerable.

    Security checkpoints not backed up by multiple armed people just mean every person that has gone through is a better victim when the one guy armed enforcing compliance that doesn't see it coming goes down first.
    I always found schools with a single police officer or security guard just as pathetic for the same reason. The guy that knows what the security situation is and comes intending harm already is going to attack at the point of or before that screening location, and then proceed right on through it over the body of the guy that just insured everyone beyond that point was disarmed.

    These checkpoints may deter some, but mostly they provide a false sense of security and insure more vulnerable victims.

    It costs too much money to adequately provide paid security in most small or medium sized establishments, in this case volunteers can make it affordable. In most other situations it requires people that do tasks other than security to also be armed. Like at a school a principal or teacher in addition to a single security officer that plan to assist and are armed.
    Every security or police officer is tens of thousands of dollars a year, one already is too expensive for many places, and adding enough to have a layered defense impractical. In CA a police officer makes six figures, and they cant find enough people willing to take the job and enforce the crazy things the state comes up with while risking your life wearing a camera and held to an almost unrealistic standard that pretty much insures the first cop will die facing any surprise attacker that is even remotely competent. This means the tax dollars behind having not just one but multiple officers is rather prohibitive and will greatly reduce how much the population gets out of their tax dollars if they provide that level of security in many places.
    Policing really is a sacrifice, because no matter how big and bad and tough you are, you cannot really protect yourself from a surprise attack and at least one guy has to go down before the others can respond and take out the known threat. That is why you should never police any population you do not really love, or community you do not care about, because it is a sacrifice.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  9. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    Random thoughts:

    If you compromise/impede the mission of the church for the sake of security, then you might as well pack it in.

    Always evaluate your best estimate of the likelihood for something going wrong with either path of action. (i.e. Come across as cold and suspicious to visitors, making them feel unwelcome vs. visitor pulls gun while they are holding your hand and defeats church's security plan).

    Small churches depend more on everyone pitching in and pulling their weight, which builds a stronger sense of community. Often people don't step up to the plate because they are unaware of the need. And often people like being "in charge" of their niche and don't to share a responsibility with others.

    A hand shake and close face to face observation can communicate very quickly a lot of information regarding someones disposition and state of mind.

    If you shake their right hand while handing them a bulletin with your left, you have safely occupied both of their hands.... if someone refuses to take the bulletin or shake your hand it should make your spidy senses tingle.

    People who show up with kids or a companion of the opposite gender are most likely not a threat, as the odds of having two psychotic nuts get along well enough to strategise shooting up a church are likely pretty darn low.
     
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  10. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Plat & Mattix
    Kliebold & Harris
    Jarrad & Amanda Miller
    Erickson & McKinney
     
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  11. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    You left out the San Bernardino shooters.
     
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  12. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    My list is by no means exhaustive. Feel free to add to it
     
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  13. BJJ223

    BJJ223 Member

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    Jesus Christ disagrees with you. Guns are necessary to protect God’s sheep.

    “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬



    https://www.bible.com/bible/1/luk.22.36.kjv
     
  14. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    And how many of these dynamic duos shot up a church?

    I suggest that all public shootings are not the same and that one should adopt policies and tactics appropriate to their specific environment.

    State mandated attendance to socialization factories aka. public schools produces a different type of resentment and angst than voluntary attendance at a house of worship. Pull the string on it and I believe you'll find that church shooters operate independently, as they have their own individual and personal beefs with God.

    The same dynamic applies to (non-robbery) instances of workplace violence.
     
  15. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    Life comes at ya from all directions... why do so many restrict their ability to answer back to but one side? You have two hands, teach & practice both. Even if not for the church, for your self & family. Suppose your strong hand/arm is damaged, in a cast. Your off hand takes over.
    But it has been said that -- in a crisis one tends to default to their training. Raising to the occasion is a noble thought. Be sure to mention it to St. Peter.
    Depending on the weather, season & how I'm dressed, strong side is a 9, 40 or 45; weak side is 380 or 9. Both fit and with my home made holster and do not print or drag down the material. Make it at home with a piece of shirt weight cardboard folded twice near the center to make a troth as wide as the grip, length is a bit shorter than the pockets front to back and height is almost the same as the gun .. Wrap both sides of it with duct tape and put a 3x piece up the outside at the muzzle. This prevents the muzzle from rubbing the coat fabric.
    Your reaction time is very little if you start with your hand in the pocket half on the gun. Practice having your hand in the pocket, 3 fingers on the grip and your trigger finger OUTSIDE the 'holster'. Your trigger finger stays on the not gun side of the holster till you draw to engage. Though I have practiced with old coats shooting through the pocket (NOTE: the zipper !!)
    You may want to go plastic for this piece so as to avoid sweat on metal.
     
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