Shipping a handgun

[95XL883]

Forgive me if this has been beaten to death but I want to be sure we do this right. Years ago, when my son lived in the same state I gave him an old H&R 22 revolver with the condition that if he ever didn’t want it that he would give it back to me. He has been in Colorado for a number of years and is about to move to California. He has never used it and doesn’t have much interest in keeping it. He would take it to California except I’ve cautioned him that it isn’t on their list of approved firearms and that he would probably have serious problems if caught with it. Thus, he wants to send it to me.

As I understand the sticky, he can send it to himself at my address but I can never open the box. Of course this will cause a problem as I wouldn’t be able to ship it back to him if he moves out of California. He can send it to me by sending it, with a copy of his driver’s license, to an FFL here. I would need to verify that my local FFL would accept a gun from a non-FFL sender. If they won’t, he would have to find a FFL in Colorado to send it here. Of course, we need to check current USPS, UPS and FedEx policies about shipping a handgun. Given the FFL’s name, it will be pretty obvious it is a firearm so USPS is probably out unless a Colorado FFL is the sender. UPS or FedEx might be kind of expensive so it might be cheaper to find a Colorado FFL. Is my understanding correct? Thank you.

I know I could make the argument that he is simply returning what I loaned him years ago but I'd rather be overly cautious than risk legal hassles over a small item.

 

[cc-hangfire]

You didn't say explicitly, but I assume you don't live in Colorado. Given that, your take on the issue is correct - assuming your state laws aren't more restrictive. Transfer of a handgun from an owner residing in one state to a recipient in another state must go through an FFL in the receiver's state. And USPS is definitely out except from FFL to FFL.

 

[NormH3]

I wonder if the gun is C&R. If you had a friend that had an FL03 perhaps he could receive it and then sell it to you for .01 so he could log it in his book. Not trying to circumvent the system illegally. I could be way off base here.

 

[Frank Ettin]

1. The revolver is perfectly legal for the OP's son to possess in California (as long as it doesn't have a threaded barrel or forward, vertical grip, or isn't chambered for shotgun shells). The Roster of Approved Handguns applies only to dealer sales.
   
   
2. If the revolver was made more than 50 years ago, it wouldn't be subject to the Roster in any case.
   
   
3. While in theory the OP's son could ship the revolver to himself in care of another person (as long as the box remained sealed), as a practical matter it won't work. A non-licensee (non-FFL) can't legally ship a handgun using USPS, and under UPS and FedEx rules, a non-licensee can ship a gun only to an FFL.
   
   
4. And has been said, under federal law a resident of one State may transfer possession of a gun to a resident of another only through an FFL (with some narrow exceptions not applicable here).

 

[hdwhit]

Of course, we need to check current USPS, UPS and FedEx policies about shipping a handgun.

From the UPS website (https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/r.../firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms):

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

FedEx and USPS are similar.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...FedEx and USPS are similar.

Except it's a violation of federal law and USPS regulations (which have the force and effect of federal law) for a non-FFL to ship a handgun by U. S. Mail.

 

[95XL883]

Thank you very much for the info. Frank, thank you especially for the CA news that he can have it there. Truthfully, I'd like for him to keep it. Hopefully it will encourage him to become a shooter. If he does decide to give it back, he will have to use an FFL as my local FFL only accepts guns from other ffl's. Anyway he apparently has time to decide.

Funny part of the story is when I gave him the gun, he was starting to take long hikes in remote woods. I wanted him to have something for a little protection and a way to signal for help. He moved to CO and his hikes have turned into extreme skiing and mountain climbing. A fair portion of where he goes is so remote that he carries a satellite connected emergency beacon and a gun is pretty much useless. (Off topic, an example of the skiing is he and a friend summitted Denali and then skied down.)

Thanks again for the help. I do chuckle that he could theoretically get it to me but I couldn't open the box. Of course he'd have to ignore FedEx and UPS policies but at least it isn't illegal.

As an aside, the gun is about 40 years old so the C&R route (which I hadn't thought of) won't work if he does decide to give it back. That was a good and creative thought.

Let's hope he keeps it and someday becomes an avid shooter.

 

[rromeo]

The revolver is perfectly legal for the OP's son to possess in California (as long as it doesn't have a threaded barrel or forward, vertical grip, or isn't chambered for shotgun shells). The Roster of Approved Handguns applies only to dealer sales.

He has his answer, but a revolver with a threaded barrel is legal. The only restriction is semiauto pistols with detachable magazines.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...a revolver with a threaded barrel is legal. The only restriction is semiauto pistols with detachable magazines.

Come to think of it, you might be correct. Please find the law for us so we can double check.

It's probably moot in any case.

 

[rromeo]

I can't prove a negative, but SB23 has this

A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I can't prove a negative, but SB23 has this....

Thank you.

1. It's not really a matter of proving a negative. Under the explicit language of the statute it applies only to semi-automatic pistols. So that takes revolvers off the table.
   
   
2. I really wasn't concerned about you proving anything. As I said, I thought you were right. However, it's always nice to have a citation. When I'm skeptical and require proof, there usually isn't any doubt about it.
   
   
3. BTW, there are better ways to cite a law than referring to a bill number (like Senate Bill 23 or SB23). There's a different bill by that number pretty much every year. Merely referring to SBxx can be pretty vague and confusing. So for clarity, the protocol is to include the year of enactment as well -- in this case the citation would be SB23 (Statutes of 1999).
   
   Better still, and the preferred way is to cite where the law was codified. In this case, the law in question as enacted by SB23 (Statutes of 1999) is found at Section 30515 of the California Penal Code, or PC 30515.

 

[rromeo]

The funny, maybe silly thing is that I knew the old number was 12276.1, I gave a few tries to look up the revised number. I didn't want to post the old PC that isn't technically correct, so I just said the SB.
Thank you.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I understand, and I'm not trying to be critical. And you helped us find what we needed.

In case anyone needs to find a California statute, the Codes can be found here. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be an easily searchable site.