Shooting Quirks...

[kannonfyre]

....Dear people of THR.... I have a marksmanship issue and I need opinions and advice.

My first handgun experience outside of the military was in 2001 when I went shooting in Thailand. (I live in Singapore and civilian access to guns are HEAVILY and EXTREMELY regulated.) I shot .38 Spec WC out of a S&W M67 and 9mm out of a Ruger P89. No problems then and I managed to get 85% COM hits at 25m.

Fastforward to the present day and after clearing the .gov background check and paying about the equivalent of US$1100 for gun club membership I now have access to a remote pistol range and can rent certain pistols for practice. Private take-home ownership is still impossible though.....

Anyhoo, I practise whenever possible and here are my observations:

a) 9mm pistols (have shot Baretta M92FS, Glock 17, CZ-75, Sig Sauer P226)
I notice that it is hard to guarantee 2-ring or better hits at 25 meters. I find that passable shooting is only possible at 20 meters or less. The ammo used is 124gr Magtech FMJ. Shot 300 rds so far.

b) .38 Special Revolvers (M67 S&W w 4" barrel, unknown and RUSTY S&W revolver with 6" barrel) Based on the 250 rounds of Fiocchi 158gr LRN that I have shot, I have found that I hit the 4-ring or better 35% of the time at 25 meters. In fact, ALL of the rounds hit the target as opposed to at least 10% of my 9mm shots which will miss the target paper COMPLETELY.

Can you fellas help me explain why .38 revolvers seem to work better for me (even when loaded with +P ammo)? Why is it that 9mm pistols (even the better models) seem to fair so poorly in my hands?

It's gotten to the stage that I am completely thinking of shooting .38 exclusively. :banghead:

 

[WayneConrad]

Why is it that 9mm pistols (even the better models) seem to fair so poorly in my hands?

Could it be because 9mm pistols have to have a grip large enough for the ammo, and the magazines are almost invariably double-stacked, making the grip quite wide?

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Revolvers may stay accurate because the barrel is fixed to the frame. The auto-pistols could loosen up with use. These are all rental guns? They may have had a bunch of bullets run through them.

Regards.

 

[kannonfyre]

A bad carpenter blames his tools...

.....I do not want to be a shooter who blames his pistol. However, taking into account what has been posted so far, it would appear that if I was to buy a 2nd hand handgun, i would be better served buying a beat-up S&W model 10 rather than a similarly beat up CZ-75B.

In anycase, all guns whether club or privately owned have to be stored on club premises by LAW. No guns can ever leave the club in private hands.

 

[Gunpacker]

Kannonfyre, as stated, revolvers are more inherently accurate than semi auto due to solid frame and barrel of revolvers. Semis can be made more accurate by tightening up tolerances, but this is not conducive to high volume manufacturing. Therefore the very accurate semis are usually custom tuned or high cost models like Colt's Gold Cup. The highly tuned semis are often not as reliable because of the tighter tolerances, so are suspect as defense firearms. You probably won't see them in your environment, so the best test of your own shooting is probably a revolver. The .38 is renowned for accuracy with many loads, so is a good choice. It is also widely available and relatively inexpensive here in US. 3 in groups at 25 yds are common with semis, where a revolver will often do 1 in.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I'd DEFINATELY choose B.

Definitely. Trust me, eh? I was an English major.

 

[kannonfyre]

Confirmed it....to myself at least.

Went to the range for practice today. Shot 50rds of Magtech 9mm through a tangfolio (dunno if I got the spelling correct) and 50rds of Fiocchi .38 specials through a beat up K-frame S&W.

From 25m, I managed to get 50% of the .38 through the 7-ring or better with only 2 rounds missing the target because of target panic and flinching.

At the same distance, NONE of the 9mm met 6-ring or better, most hit 4-ring or worse and about 12 shots missed the target completely.

I find it very strange that I might be able to pass LE qualification tests with a rented revolver but stand a GOOD chance of failing if I try the same test with well maintained high end 9mm semi-auto.

 

[MikeIsaj]

What do your shot groups look like? Where are they falling on the target? Do you see any consistant patterns? That can tell you alot about what is happening.

Rental guns are going to be less accurate than your own weapon for many reasons. Rentals are generally more worn out and do not receive the care that your personnal weapon will get. All guns have their own unique characteristics. Is it possible to request the same weapon each time you shoot?

The ammo you are using makes a difference also. Experiment with different brands of ammo until you find something that gives you the most consistant results.

 

[dleong]

kannonfyre,

Were you shooting the pistols offhand or benchrested?

Given that they were range rentals, I would not be surprised if the barrels were worn. The next time you go to the range, try shooting the pistols benchrested to take "human error" out of the equation, and see how the shots are patterning.

The semi-autos that you mentioned should all be reasonably accurate out to 25 yards (the CZ-75B especially--both my 9mm and 40S&W versions are fully capable of sub-3" groups at 25 yards, benchrested).

Which club did you join?


DL

 

[TheEgg]

Shooting Quirks

Just make sure they are in season!

And use enough gun!

 

[Azrael256]

Could you perhaps shoot off a box, take the target home, take a picture, and post it here? "My accuracy is no good" is a fine start for an analysis, but it would be very helpful to know just exactly how your rounds are hitting the target.

 

[NMshooter]

You need to shoot more.

A lot more.

If cost is prohibitive for centerfire ammo then shoot rimfire for a while.

A few thousand rounds should help.

Practice, practice, practice.

And then practice some more.

 

[kannonfyre]

MikeIsaj:

As mentioned during my most recent posting, the tangfolio belonged to a acquaintence who cared for the piece like one of his own daughters.

(side note: He brought his two twenty something year old daughters to shoot with him and I gotta say that they were quite "hawt". )

The more accurate revolver was a range rental piece that had a RUSTY trigger. Having said that, that worn out piece spanked the heck out of the tangfolio.

As earlier said, both guns were feeding cheap training ammo.

Mr Leong:

Long time no talk my friend! I was shooting both pistols offhand.

I joined the Singapore Rifle Association. It's the only gun club here that has LE type service pistols for rent. Other clubs specialize in skeet and trap or olympic .32 or .22 pistols.

I'll take your benchrest advise and pit a browning HP w pachmayer grips VS a S&W M67 revolver with wooden grips during my next practice trip.

 

[Malamute]

I've been shooting pistols for about34 years, and have always shot revolvers better. Better groups on paper, and better handling on things like running rabbits and squirrels.


"The semi-autos that you mentioned should all be reasonably accurate out to 25 yards (the CZ-75B especially--both my 9mm and 40S&W versions are fully capable of sub-3" groups at 25 yards, benchrested)."

I'm not sure if that was intended as an endorsment of the accuracy of auto pistols, but any decent Smith revolver should be able to make groups half that size rested, and many will do better. I wouldn't keep a pistol that would only make 3" groups benchrested.