Short cycle
- Thread starter 74shooter
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How much Titegroup, what bullet, what COL...........?
LiveLife
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Try increasing the powder as you are at start chage.
Here's Hodgdon lead load data - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
- 115 gr Lead RN Titegroup OAL 1.100" Start 3.9 gr (1,075 fps) - Max 4.3 gr (1,151 fps)
Here's Speer load data for TMJ RN which is a thick plated bullet - https://www.speer-ammo.com/download...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf
- 115 gr Speer TMJ Titegroup OAL 1.135" Start 4.1 gr (1061 fps) - Max 4.5 gr (1121 fps)
I would suggest you try loading RMR 115 gr Plated RN to 1.130"-1.135" with 4.2 gr Titegroup with .377"-.378" taper crimp (.377" if bullet diameter is .355" and .378" if bullet diameter is .3555"-.356").
Like many fast powders, Tightgroup is too fast burning to provide the proper impulse needed for your pistol to cycle. Some manuals will warn about using fast powders for ammo intended to be used in light polymer handguns like Glocks and apparently the Taurus PT111 G2.
The main reason Unique doesn't meter well from most powder measures is because the users have the larger general metering insert made for charges as large as 50 to 100 grains installed. Use a pistol meter insert to meter the under 10 grs of Unique you will be using in the 9mm and the issues you have with accurate metering will disappear. Most powder measures that have difficulty with consistent drops of very small pistol charges will have different meter tube specifically to correct the issue.
The main reason Unique doesn't meter well from most powder measures is because the users have the larger general metering insert made for charges as large as 50 to 100 grains installed. Use a pistol meter insert to meter the under 10 grs of Unique you will be using in the 9mm and the issues you have with accurate metering will disappear. Most powder measures that have difficulty with consistent drops of very small pistol charges will have different meter tube specifically to correct the issue.
LiveLife
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A friend bought his wife a Taurus G2C and we broke it in with my general purpose range ammo: RMR 115 gr FMJ with 4.0-4.2 gr Promo loaded to 1.130" OAL.
Promo has same burn rate as Red Dot (per Alliant) and is faster burning than Titegroup.
Pistol cycled without issues and produced good accuracy at 7-10 yards we shot at.
I have also loaded RMR pulled 115 gr plated RN with 4.0-4.2 gr of Promo at 1.125" OAL and it has cycled the slides of various pistols I have and friends'/neighbors' pistols from full size, compact to subcompact.
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I find with my drum style powder measures, they are more consistent if the cavity is operating at around it's mid range of its capability.
So, I have a Redding 10-X for most pistol loads, an RCBS Uniflow for small rifle loads and a discontinued Midway Indispensable powder measure with a large capacity drum for larger rifle charges.
That said, yes, Unique does not meter as well as many ball powders but it does not seem to matter. Even with a bit larger variation in the powder charges with Unique, the ammunition shoot with good consistently. It is called "Unique" for a reason.
I've used some Titegroup but have not been pleased with it's performance. I prefer to use W231, Bullseye or Unique for lighter pistol loads.
So, I have a Redding 10-X for most pistol loads, an RCBS Uniflow for small rifle loads and a discontinued Midway Indispensable powder measure with a large capacity drum for larger rifle charges.
That said, yes, Unique does not meter as well as many ball powders but it does not seem to matter. Even with a bit larger variation in the powder charges with Unique, the ammunition shoot with good consistently. It is called "Unique" for a reason.
I've used some Titegroup but have not been pleased with it's performance. I prefer to use W231, Bullseye or Unique for lighter pistol loads.
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74shooter
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Great info, thank you!
Blue68f100
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WST is my go to powder for BE type loads. The hidden beauty of WST is that it burns clean at reduced loads and runs cool, light in color and easy to see, bulky so it fills the case. Unlike TG which has a high nitro content which runs hot. Like you Unique measures like XXX. I used up my last pound 2-3 decades ago and have not and will not replace it. A lot more powders to choose from than 40-50 yrs ago. The problem is there is very little data for WST unless you find some in old 70's-80's load books.
WSF is my preferred powder for std 9mm loads. It's also a ball powder that is easy to see and meters great.
WSF is my preferred powder for std 9mm loads. It's also a ball powder that is easy to see and meters great.
You're probably getting just over 1000 fps at best out of that combination. That's going to be marginal recoil to cycle the action. I'll bet it's considerably more "comfortable" to shoot, that's because the recoil is so low. If you tried 4.3g of Titegroup, you'll probably see a lot more reliability in cycling the action on that gun. A firm grip to prevent limp wristing can also help. In fact, if you tried testing your 4.0g load resting on sandbags with a "death grip" and found that you get reliable cycling, you know it's a combination of too low a charge and/or your hands absorbing the recoil which is causing the failures to cycle. While you don't want to always shoot with a death grip on the gun, if you notice a difference in cycling reliability, then you can work on your grip.
I personally use 4.2-4.4g Titegroup with 120g cast bullets and get 100% cycling reliability in 3.1" (Shield), 4" (XD9), 4.25"(M&P9) and 5" (92fs) 9mm guns.
With a slightly slower powder such as BE-86, you can get higher muzzle velocities, more recoil to cycle the action and good metering compared to Unique.
I personally use 4.2-4.4g Titegroup with 120g cast bullets and get 100% cycling reliability in 3.1" (Shield), 4" (XD9), 4.25"(M&P9) and 5" (92fs) 9mm guns.
With a slightly slower powder such as BE-86, you can get higher muzzle velocities, more recoil to cycle the action and good metering compared to Unique.
kmw1954
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I have 2 pistols, a Taurus PT92C and a HK VP9 and neither one like many loads that are at or near starting charges. I get cycling and failure to lock open issues. But bump up the load just .2gr and everything is fine. Try that.
AJC1
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4.0 grains of tg at 1.090 with every 115 bullet that rmr makes has worked wonderful in a glock 17. Ir has also worked well in a friends shield compact. 5.5 grains of unique is my other target load with the same bullets. The longer oal's are just going to reduce pressure and recoil energy for cycling the slide and will require an increase in charge. You can go either direction in an attempt to solve your issues. Seat the bullet deeper or use more powder.
I use 4.0gr of TG, CCI500's with 124gr Xtreme's @ 1.150 and they shoot great in the summer. Best groups of many powders I've tried. In cold weather they don't cycle well. One in ten will hang up on extraction and the slide won't lock back on the last round. Very frustrating. Tells me they're short cycling. I warmed up the rounds with my truck heater and they ran fine. TG must be temp sensitive.
LiveLife
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Most powders are and some are actually reverse temperature sensitive - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...temperature-sensitivity.817116/#post-10473222
lordpaxman
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@74shooter did you decide to continue with Titegroup or select some other powder? TGs a good powder and there’s a reason a lot of competition shooters use it - you just want to be extra careful with it. If you’re looking for alternatives in the fast to mid burn range, in order of my preference are Sport Pistol, N320, IMR Target and W244.
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74shooter
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Went to the local gun store for be86 to no avail, came home with w231, loaded some 9’s but have yet to get to the range, I did FINALLY got the Auto Drum dialed in and it metered the W231 to +/- .03 gr. Hope to make it to the range this week.
kmw1954
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74shooter I have found the HP-38/W231 to be one of the most accurate and consistent powders I use with the 9mm and 115/124gr bullets. I have also found it to meter to +/- .1gr but mostly +/- .05gr.. Even at that most are to the light side rather than over my set point.
lordpaxman
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231 is an excellent powder in a quite a few calibers. It meters very well, burns relatively clean, and more importantly can lead to precise groups. I wouldn’t give up on TG, set it aside and after you get 231 dialed in, you may want to have another run at it. Good luck and looking forward to the range report.
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74shooter
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I have nor given up on TG, actually I did try it for my 45acp, however the results were less favorable than Unique, my plan is to tweak the charge weight and OAL to determine if more favorable groups are possible. I have used Unique and W296 for years and was satisfied with their performance, sold my .357 years ago and just kept loading 9’s and 45’s with Unique, time for a change. Unique is a good powder but does not meter well, so with these old eyes, between the powder measure and the bullseye, I need all the help I can get.
lordpaxman
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It’s called a “Red Dot”. I’m in the same boat.
AJC1
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But
Have you tried ramshot siloette. Never have metering problems ever again.
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74shooter
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I have not tried any Ramshot powders, what powder measure are you using?
AJC1
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My dads old herters
Not that it would matter the dam balls are so tiny you could use anything and it just comes out like water.
kmw1954
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Can't speak for AJC1 but I've been using Accurate AA#2, AA#5 and Ramshot Silhouette in an old style Lee Auto Disk, a new style Auto Disk Pro and a Lee Auto Drum and also use these on a Lee Pro1000 press so for me any leakage is a big deal. With what I am using I spill more power than what I see leaking. For my pistol loading I am sold on the AA powders and the Silhouette. I also really love the load data they provide, especially for plated bullets.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/
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