Shotgun barrel length

[entropy]

View attachment 864448

I think you just said what I already stated. The barrel length is not the deciding factor! The ammo will be more deciding than the length of the barrel. This is an example of a recent Winchester AA load with the shot cup.

I think you missed this part of my post:

It does, as has been pointed out by George P, change the swing dynamics, which has been noted by Trap shooters for many years, and more recently by Skeet and Sporting Clays shooters. Some of us old Trap shooters used 30" barrels for all kinds of hunting, too. I've shot many a grouse with a 30" Full 870.

I said ballistically barrel length affects little. Barrel length does indeed affect wingshooting, as George P. again pointed out in the above post. As does shell constriction. That's why you won't see top competitors in any of the clays games, or knowledgeable hunters, use anything but the best shells. I see the 15/25 crowd using the cheap ones all the time.

Not Sporting clays at any course I have seen especially pro courses.

At Horse & Hunt, the only barrels I saw under 30" were 28ga. and .410. You must not have been there when I was, and that was a while back, they are only getting longer. The standard for SC barrels has been working it's way to 32" from 30" for sometime now. Usually, you can only tell a guy's SC gun from his Trap gun by the stock. SC stocks tend to be a little shorter, more pitch, and rounded recoil pads. If they have an adjustatble comb, it is at 1 or 2 washers, instead of 4. Oh, and his huge bag of chokes he's switching out from station to station.

And I ended up quoting myself again.....

 

[Milkmaster]

I agree entropy. I think we are all saying the same thing. My less than clear attempts to explain one difference was about the ammo and the subsequent spread of the shot, but I do indeed use the 30 inch barrels on my clay gun. That's the other part of the story where smoothing out the routine helps the shooter.

 

[George P]

I think you missed this part of my post:



I said ballistically barrel length affects little. Barrel length does indeed affect wingshooting, as George P. again pointed out in the above post. As does shell constriction. That's why you won't see top competitors in any of the clays games, or knowledgeable hunters, use anything but the best shells. I see the 15/25 crowd using the cheap ones all the time.

At Horse & Hunt, the only barrels I saw under 30" were 28ga. and .410. You must not have been there when I was, and that was a while back, they are only getting longer. The standard for SC barrels has been working it's way to 32" from 30" for sometime now. Usually, you can only tell a guy's SC gun from his Trap gun by the stock. SC stocks tend to be a little shorter, more pitch, and rounded recoil pads. If they have an adjustatble comb, it is at 1 or 2 washers, instead of 4. Oh, and his huge bag of chokes he's switching out from station to station.

And I ended up quoting myself again.....

My 32" 12 gauge Browning is a 1994 Gti; 32s have been here since at least then

 

[d2wing]

Not sure what you mean by "pro courses". I shoot NSCA registered targets, so if that qualifies as "pro courses", then OK. I can tell you, both as a shooter and a National FITASC referee, NO one shoots a gun with barrels less than 30", and that includes the gas guns like my Beretta A400, my Browning O/Us, etc. My 12 wears 32". Wendell Cherry shoots a 34" Perazzi, the rest of the big dogs all shoot at least 32" - it is for the smooth swing dynamics I mentioned earlier. Even some 5'-5" ladies in their 70s I know shoot 30" barrels. It's all in what you find easy to swing. Shorter barrels start fast, but then they also tend to stop real fast as well. In super tight grouse coverts, that might be advantageous (I don't hunt grouse), but for open field birds, I like longer barrels there as well.

That's fine. If it works on the courses you shoot that's good. I do hunt woodcock and grouse and have shot some very demanding courses where fast guns are better. Bouncing Battues, fast doubles from different directions in cover and so on. But for the type of shooting you mention I don't disagree. If you shoot trap you are going to gravitate toward long guns with momentum. The standard barrel length for international sporting clays is 29 inches.

 

[George P]

We get very fast crossers, quartering away, springing teals, rabbits at 5 yards or 50 yards, rabbits thrown like battues, etc. When there is a pair of fast opposite crossers (L2R and R2L), you set your hold point for the second target and swing back for the first. It isn't hard to move a 32' barrel. I own a 26" 20 that is so whippy, it sits in the safe. I really want to find a way to buy my friend's Perazzi 28 gauge - built on the heavier 20 gauge frame with 80cm barrels, (~31.5") it is awesome on targets and doves (He had it built for dove in Argentina) and it is choked .016 in each barrel, a very tight M. Since he also writes gun reviews, I have gotten to shoot a lot of various guns. The very light short barrel guns are difficult to hit anything with as they are SO whippy they start fast and stop even faster, especially on crossers.

 

[d2wing]

The reason the barrel stops is that you never learned follow through on your swing. That is an essential part of the training when I was a certified and trained instructor. The guy I shoot with a state Champion pro and he shoots for big money. A long barrel is a crutch for poor follow through but most guys are just like you, Never had any training to start with therefor never learned the proper way to shoot. That is why long guns matter to most shooters.

 

[eastbank]

I,m tired.

 

[entropy]

I think George and I know how to follow through on swing. I teach it also. I have to remind some of the kids to stop the swing before they are pointing at the person next to them. I have shot Trap with shorter barrels, and SC, it just adds another layer of difficulty to an already difficult task,and something to be thinking about when you aren't supposed to be thinking at all. We had a gal on the HS Trap team this year that struggled with shooting a 26" Citori. We kept telling her to switch guns, her Dad insisted on the Citori. We finally convinced him to let her try his 30" A400, and lo and behold, she shot a 15. Know what her score was the week before, with that Citori? 0. Sadly, that was the last week of Trap for the kids, so her high for the year was 15. That Citori had her in literal tears on and off the whole year.
I like short barrels for grouse, (though as I posted earlier, did fine with a 30" 870) and Home Defense. But not wingshooting other than grouse.
Because swing dynamics are so important, I add 2 or 3 shot-filled hulls on the top side of my magazine (my Trap gun is an 1100 Competition, which many complain is already muzzle heavy) for Trap. As the angle decreases, (handicap) I take one out, since it's not as needed there.
I do shoot leagues with a guy who uses a 26" 870, with full choke in, at 16 yards, and does very well. He's the exception to the rule, though. the other 9 of us in the club's top ten use 30" or longer barrels. He is not #1, he's 7th.

 

[kudu]

I am mainly a skeet shooter and sporting clay shooter, dabbled with a little FITASC in the past. I have several shotguns with less than 26" barrels and can run straights with them all on skeet most of the time and keep up pretty close to AA average on sporting clays fields. I can shoot them well, but I prefer a longer barrel to shoot with because it feels better to me and might add that extra target. I quit competing 20+ years ago and just shoot for mostly fun. Last year we had the State Sporting Clays shoot at our club on Saturday, was professionally set up for targets. I went and shot it on Sunday and shot a 91, 93 won it the day before and 91 tied for second. I had 30" barrels, could I have shot it with one of my other guns with 24" or 25", sure, and could of gotten real close to the same score, but they don't feel as good to me.

Barrel length is going to be subjective to each and every shooter out there, as will the feel of each and every brand of gun. A new shooter may do great with a gun with 26" barrels and may pick up a gun that has 30"or 32" barrels and shoot it and think this feels great, or this feels awful. One brand of gun with long barrels may feel great, another might feel like swinging a 2x4. SUBJECTIVE

Saw a video the other day stating that there is not a huge difference in spread patterns between a 28in and 18.5in shotgun barrel with birdshot because of chokes. Not sure I believe that but does it make a huge difference for rifled slugs?

This is the OP opening statement.

 

[d2wing]

I'm all done guys. Interesting discussion. Thanks for the input. Since the OP was talking about patterns we were maybe off topic.

 

[entropy]

Since the OP was talking about patterns we were maybe off topic.

Agreed.

 

[George P]

The reason the barrel stops is that you never learned follow through on your swing. That is an essential part of the training when I was a certified and trained instructor. The guy I shoot with a state Champion pro and he shoots for big money. A long barrel is a crutch for poor follow through but most guys are just like you, Never had any training to start with therefor never learned the proper way to shoot. That is why long guns matter to most shooters.

I'll disagree, I shoot with NSCA Hall of fame members, PSCA pro shooters and others who have won World Championships. EVERY one of them shoots 30, 32 or 34" barrels. It is not a crutch, it is an essential tool to do well. I have had plenty of training from a lot of very good people, including the likes of those I mentioned above. Short barrels are not good for great results at least according to those champions I personally know and shoot with.

 

[d2wing]

You win. Not going to argue. Off topic.

 

[eastbank]

its easy to check the records of the winners in the clay games and the shotguns they used, in skeet the shots are very close(21 yards or closer) all the time so you don,t have a lot of time to kill the birds. so shorter barrels are what I use, but to say using a longer barrel is a crutch because of training is just not right.

 

[nortwoods1]

i usually shy away from anything under a 28" barrel, i prefer barrels 30" or longer as i personally think they shoot better. my uses are almost exclusively hunting so that certianly sways my opinion on the subject. obviously a 30" barrel is absolutely worse off than a 18.5" or 20" etc. for a situation like home defense but its what i have and its far better than nothing. this is solved by having a shotgun that can interchange barrels easily, when going hunting throw the 26" or 28" on. when you get home put the 18.5" or 20" back on, simple.

 

[Xcobra122]

I don’t know how helpful this is to you, but I only have one shotgun. It’s a Remington 870 12 gauge with a 20” fixed improved cylinder barrel and rifle sights. I routinely limit out on the dove field every year, plus have no issue hitting my bag limit on squirrel and rabbits most of the time. I can also fire any 12 gauge load 3” and under without having to worry about changing my barrel or choke. Plus it’s plenty short enough for home defense. It may not be the most popular setup, but it sure works just fine for me.

 

[entropy]

I don’t know how helpful this is to you, but I only have one shotgun. It’s a Remington 870 12 gauge with a 20” fixed improved cylinder barrel and rifle sights. I routinely limit out on the dove field every year, plus have no issue hitting my bag limit on squirrel and rabbits most of the time. I can also fire any 12 gauge load 3” and under without having to worry about changing my barrel or choke. Plus it’s plenty short enough for home defense. It may not be the most popular setup, but it sure works just fine for me.

Having just that one barrel limits you out of ducks, pheasant, grouse, etc. If you don't hunt these, you're set.

If you think your 20" IC barrel is the shizzle, try a round of Trap with it. I shoot my HD gun one round of Trap every year. It's not pretty.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'd have to assume that the comparison is queered by what I would expect to be a Cylinder Bore on most any given 18.5 inch barrel.
If that's the case, not even apples and oranges.... More like apples and rocks.

Todd.

 

[cdb1]

I’m pretty much in agreement with everything stated in kudu’s last post. I think I’ve read several times over the years that back in the day a 26” barrel was most used length for skeet. I could be wrong of course but the thought keeps popping into my feeble brain.


I shoot informal skeet a couple of times a year, do a lot of dove hunting and a fair amount of quail and duck hunting.

Discovered a long time ago I do better with 26” barrels-in a semi. I wish the opposite were true cuz 26” semi-autos are considerably harder to find NIB. Don’t know about used. If I owned an O/U I suspect I’d do better with a 28” barrel due to the shorter receiver.

I also believe a person’s build has something to do with best barrel length.

 

[Macchina]

I hunted once with an 18" shotgun (tight shots at woodcock) and after a single shot that rang my ears like nothing else I put the shotgun away. Missed out on a day of hunting. The sound was unbearable. I've fired guns hundreds of times with hearing protection (unfortunately) and nothing was like that 18" shotgun.

I now hunt woodcock with my 26" 870. Great woods gun.

 

[Xcobra122]

Having just that one barrel limits you out of ducks, pheasant, grouse, etc. If you don't hunt these, you're set.

If you think your 20" IC barrel is the shizzle, try a round of Trap with it. I shoot my HD gun one round of Trap every year. It's not pretty.

As far as I know, there isn't a trap range anywhere near where I live, but I'd love to try it sometime. It would be easy enough to grab an extra barrel for my 870 if I really needed it. As far as pheasant and grouse go, I haven't seen either of those around here since I was a kid. We do have a ton of ducks, but I don't hunt them. I often toss some sweet corn or bird seed in my tackle box and feed them when I go fishing though. I have a bit of a soft spot for ducklings.

 

[George P]

As far as I know, there isn't a trap range anywhere near where I live, but I'd love to try it sometime. It would be easy enough to grab an extra barrel for my 870 if I really needed it. As far as pheasant and grouse go, I haven't seen either of those around here since I was a kid. We do have a ton of ducks, but I don't hunt them. I often toss some sweet corn or bird seed in my tackle box and feed them when I go fishing though. I have a bit of a soft spot for ducklings.

Look here to see what's nearby:

https://www.claytargetsonline.com/

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I usually opt for the shortest barrel available----my M2 has a 21in barrel--my 870's all have 26in barrels and my cheap O/U has 28in barrels------these are bird hunting barrels not slug/deer/hd barrels----I do have 21in rifle sighted (12 and 20) barrels for my 870's and my HD gun has a 20in barrel.