Side charging uppers

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I'm collecting a wide array of spare AR parts and I've got it in mind to do a heavy, manual straight pull AR for S&Gs. I've seen side charging uppers, but do they use a standard AR bolt? Do the charging handles reciprocate with the bolt?

Without a gas system, will the bolt stay locked to the barrel extension until I manually cycle the gun, or will it come open (even partially)?
 
I don't know much about side-charging uppers specifically, but I do know that without a gas system an AR bolt will stay completely locked to the barrel extention and won't open at all.

EDIT: I'm specifically referring to the fact that it won't open when firing the rifle. Of course it will still open if manually cycled.
 
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I've seen side charging uppers, but do they use a standard AR bolt? Do the charging handles reciprocate with the bolt?
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The ones that I've handled all use a standard bolt and a modified bolt carrier that has been drilled or manufactured with a provision for a fixed charging handle that will reciprocate with the carrier. The upper receiver then needs a slot milled in it to accommodate the reciprocating charging handle.

The ones that seem most popular are ambi, meaning that the receiver is milled on both sides for a charging handle, and the handle can be screwed into either the left or the right side of the bolt carrier.
 
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I'm pretty sure I saw one with a non reciprocating charging handle. I have no idea who the maker was though.
 
rbernie said:
Rearward motion of the bolt carrier will cause the cam pin to slide sideways in its kidney-shaped recess and thus rotate the bolt head and unlock the bolt from the barrel extension/locking lugs.
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I'll admit I've never fired an AR without a gas system. But it seems to me that without a gas system there's nothing to push the carrier back far enough to allow the bolt to fully unlock from the barrel extension. Are you saying that there's enough movement of the rifle under recoil to push the carrier back far enough for the bolt to unlock?
 
No, I'm saying that ANYTHING that causes the bolt carrier to the rear will unlock the bolt. After all, that's what the charging handle does.
 
Side charging ARs do not eliminate the gas system...the block, tube, and key are all stil there. They just move the method of manually retracting the bolt to the receiver side rather than the top. Some find that more intuitive and simpler.
 
The only one I have played with is the JP upper and it does not reciprocate, there are others that don't either.

Yes you can fire an AR with the gas system turned off, they just turn into a single shot, make less noise though.
 
rbernie said:
No, I'm saying that ANYTHING that causes the bolt carrier to the rear will unlock the bolt. After all, that's what the charging handle does.
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I see what happened here: You took my comment in post #2 to mean that the bolt won't open at all, is that it? But I specifically meant that it won't open when firing the rifle without a gas system, which is what it looks like the OP meant when he asked that question. But of course it will open if you manually pull the carrier to the rear with the charging handle.

So then I took your response in post #3 to mean that the bolt will unlock from the barrel extension by itself even when firing without a gas system, which doesn't seem right to me.

I'll edit my first post to include the fact that I meant "while firing the rifle".
 
My side charging AR-15 has a modified bolt carrier to accept the side charging handle on the right side of the gun and a slot cut in the upper for the side charging handle to move through.

It still has the original charing handle and gas system on it.

My side charging AR-15 is a prairie dog rifle that I shoot with a brass catcher. The handle gets in the way a bit with the brass catcher. Fortunately, the Caldwell brass catcher with the quick remove basket fits well around the side charging handle.

Right now, I would not build another side charging AR-15.

I've thought about removing the gas system from an AR-15 to make it a single shot. I'm concerned that the bolt is not latched in place and if the handle is accidentally bumped it might come unlocked under firing. I have not seen a solution, but have not looked real hard either. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

I've seen one non-reciprocating system and if I remember correctly, it was on the left side of the upper with lot of modifications to the upper. But, I've slept since i saw it.

I am sure there are others.
 
I'm making a MANUAL STRAIGHT PULL rifle cobbled together from AR parts, as I clearly stated in Post #1, sentence #1.

I'm asking if the bolt will remain stationary, locked to the extension, until I manually charge the gun, like a straight pull bolt action, or if it will unlock and open under the pressure of the bullet firing? I'm hoping it will remain locked until I manually cycle the bolt.

I'm eliminating the gas system, by choice, on purpose, for a straight pull bolt action rifle that has all the appearance of a side charging AR. It's a mental project that may eventually be built.
 
I'm thinking if its possible for the bolt to become unlocked in some way thats unsafe just from firing the gun, it would be just as unsafe to fire being a semi-auto with the gas system. If all you do is remove/disable the gas system, it should be every bit as locked upon firing as if it had the gas system. The bolt cycling on self loading is done in a controlled way. I believe youd be breaking things and perhaps blowing the bolt/carrier out or the upper receiver being destroyed if it could fire unlocked.

The AR bolt shouldnt be able to fire if its not locked. It also shouldnt be able to unlock simply from firing, certainly not in an unsafe manner.
 
Malamute: Thanks for that. That's pretty much what I was thinking. I figure the locking lugs should do their job and hold the bolt closed until pressures drop to safe levels. The bolt mass, buffer and spring should assist in ensuring the bolt stays closed until pressure drop to safe levels since there is no rearward force pushing it back (other than the recoil). I may try this by disabling the gas port on a completed rifle, just to be sure, before starting a new build.

I also see an aftermarket charging handle that replaces the existing CH for a non reciprocating side charge, but does not eliminate the full length of the charging handle itself.
https://www.gfgear.com/charging-handles/ar-15/gfg-side-charger

I'm thinking I want a true side charging, non reciprocating left side charging upper for this project, and see they tend to run about $250, give or take.

A manual straight pull bolt action rifle that uses off the shelf AR parts, could be a nice alternative for ban states. Just need a barrel that isn't drilled for a gas port (or permanently close the existing one).
 
The gas system does nothing to keep the action closed. All it does is open it. So if no gas is present, it will safely fire and remain closed until you manually cycle it. Think of all the adjustable gas blocks out there that have an "off" position.
 
You won't have any leverage so it my be hard to open the bolt after firing. Make sure you full length resize too.
 
I've thought about removing the gas system from an AR-15 to make it a single shot. I'm concerned that the bolt is not latched in place and if the handle is accidentally bumped it might come unlocked under firing. I have not seen a solution, but have not looked real hard either. Maybe I'm over thinking it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all you need is an on/off gas block and you can switch between normal and single shot.

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Made this one.

IMG_1190.jpg
 
Ah. Reread through. Following now.

Yes, the bolt will remain locked in place with no gas until you charge it, no matter how stout the load. The bearing surfaces of the bolt and barrel extension are perpendicular to the load on them under recoil.

Just las week my AR turned itself into a bolt action unexpectedly. Turns out I'd managed to get a popped primer lodged in the gas key. It shot straight, cycled easily manually. But the bolt wouldnt budge on its own.
 
I retired from active duty Air Force back in November 2013. I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2012. Prior to leaving my home station for 6 weeks of pre-deployment training, we had to qualify on the M4's and M9's we would be taking with us on our deployment. The M4 I was issued and was going to deploy with would not cycle the bolt after firing the round in the chamber. The Combat Arms guys tried to figure out what was wrong with the rifle between sighting-in and pre-qualifying but couldn't. I ended up qualifying expert with that magazine fed "bolt action" M4 that day in all of the positions they make you fire from including wearing a gas mask and always finishing the course of fire before time was up and cease fire was called. Was it a pain in the a**? Yes! I was reissued a different M4 (that worked as designed) right before we deployed and only had to go back and sight it in since I had already qualified with the same set up. The combat arms guys had never seen anyone do what I did that day.
 
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