Sig 220-ST Test drive: Culture Shock for SA folks

[RugerOldArmy]

I had been eyeing Sig 220s for quite a bit, especially due to their reputation for out of the box accuracy. I found a Sig 220 ST used, that didn't appear to have been shot at all. Schedules conspire against single dads, but I finally go out to shoot it today, and chrono a slew of test reloads, so I headed out with the 220, my workhorse 1911, and my CZ.

As expected, function was flawless, it didn't skip a beat. I was happy that some of my standard loads didn't lose much velocity, due to the shorter barrel, than they chrono-ed in a 5" barrel. I really like the fit and finish, and a field strip is a breeze. The barrel and gun were a cinch to clean. I like the sights. The solid feel.

But I'll tell you, it's going to take me a bit to get used to the grip. Maybe the wood grips I ordered will help. It also seems like the trigger is much closer to the backstrap (dunno how to describe it) than my other pistols, it is a shorter reach. I didn't notice that in the gunshop.

The sights are nice, this one doesn't have the Sig night sights, which is ok, since I have night sights on one of my 1911(s), and on my CZ 75-SA. They're like the Sig contrast sights, with a single white line on the rear sight. I have no complaints here, in fact I like 'em.

I must have shot 200-250 rounds through it, but I really don't know how it shoots. What I do know, is that I shot it very poorly in comparison to the other pistols I took to chrono loads through. It did, however, seem to have the potential for accuracy.

My issue was the trigger. Even shooting in single action mode, it seemed LOOOOONNNNGGG. Longer than my CZ-75 SA (a single-action variant of the CZ 75B, and CZ-75B's are known for long triggers. Of the three pistolas, the SA mode of the Sig 220 ST was the heaviest, and seemed the longest.

And I'd hate to tell you how little I appreciated DA mode, after years of SA mode. This is a skill I just don't have developed, i.e. dealing with the two trigger weights.

I flinched..I seemed shakier during that long pull. I just couldn't shoot the pistol well. I did use a rest, and shot a few nice 25 year groups (a bit low, hotter ammo at the time, and to the left).

Yet I shot some of the best 1911 bullseye-type groups I ever shot, as well as some of the best CZ groups I ever shot (which could be those 124 Gr Montana Gold JHP(s) I was testing.).

So tell me, how do I develop the skill to overcome this trigger, as spoiled as I am with years of 1911 triggers? Think I have to shoot it exclusively for a while?

Also, will the Sig trigger smooth out and break in like my CZ-75 did? Or is a trigger job pretty much a standard course of action, like with a BHP (and the removal of a BHP's mag break)?

The Sig seemed to function fine, and I perceive that it has accuracy potential, but damn, I just can't shoot it well. I shoot cap & ball pistola groups 1/3 the size! And it is not a function of the pistola, it seems mechanically sound. I'm relatively confident that if it was ransom-rested, it would shoot well. The disparity with me behind the wheel is incredible though.

 

[Double Maduro]

ROA,

How do I get to Carnegie Hall?

Practice, practice, practice.

If you can dry fire this one do so, a lot, use snap caps if you have too.

When I got my Ruger P90, I retired my 90 year old 1911, it took a while to get used to the DA first shot. The more I dry fired the better I got and the better the trigger got.

Hang in there.

We expect regular progress reports.

DM

 

[RugerOldArmy]

it took a while to get used to the DA first shot.

You don't know how good that is to hear, that it isn't just me. I can't shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards like some of the folks here ...it took me until now to get honest 3" no rest groups at 25 yards.

I hear you on the practice. I'm just worried I'd have to marry the Sig, and not get to date the 1911(s) for a while.

I'd wouldn't like to be a cop, and have gotten told I can't use a 1911, and tomorrow I have to use a double action Sig or Glock. (As nice as the Sigs are, and they seem like fine machines/tools).

Thanks buddy.

 

[TODD3465]

Well I'll say the trigger should also wear in if not send it to Sig for work.

All the Sigs I've owned have ben used. And have had nice trigger pulls both DA and single action. In fact the Sig has let me get easier DA first hits than either the S&W's or Rugers I've shot and/or owned.


I will also add that I've got big hands which may help with the DA trigger leverage.

 

[strambo]

I'm in the same boat...used to SA and my Kahr K9/Glocks etc.. always avoided DA/SA pistols. I just got back from Iraq as a security contractor and I was issued a Sig P226. I got better with it but still have trouble with the long DA pull.

I bought a used P226 and took it to the NRA Law Enforcement Handgun/Shotgun Instructor course last week (awesome class, well worth the $$) We did a drill to determine your max effective range without using sights. Starting at 3 yards, target focus and shoot 2. Then moved back to 5, 7 and 10 yards. The idea was when you miss the vital zone, that range is when you need to go to sights.

The instructors figured it would be 5-7 yds for most people. I had no problem keeping them in the vital zone at 10 yds. The DA pull was not a problem because I was not thinking about it while trying to keep the sights aligned. I just target focused and smoothly/quickly cranked through it.

After that I just focused on the target or got a flash front sight picture with the DA pull for everything at or inside of 10 yds and did fine. I think the key is to pull it faster. I'm probably going to install the short trigger and a reduced power mainspring to help the DA pull a bit too.

 

[P. Plainsman]

Interesting test drive, ROA.

My experiences with my SIG P220ST have been very similar to yours, though in my case you might caption it "Culture Shock for revolver folks." It is a nice, well-finished, solid, dead reliable pistol. However, either the "great out-of-the-box accuracy!" reputation of SIGs is exaggerated, or, in your words:

it has accuracy potential, but damn, I just can't shoot it well.

I shoot a good deal of revolver, and I can outshoot that $800 SIG with a decent $400 .357 sixgun (firing double action) five ways from Friday and twice on weekends.

The SIG's sights are off for elevation with plinking ammo and somewhat off with defense ammo. I shoot it all-DA, all SA, DA/SA. The groups aren't absolutely terrible, but they just won't settle down. If I were a gunwriter I would have to bust out with some of those cherished euphemisms like "displays reasonable combat accuracy within appropriate ranges." DA is definitely the worst.

Re: the trigger -- I think it's a rather good trigger, mechanically speaking, for an autoloader. Smooth, even DA and crisp SA. But it is a long DA pull, as you state, and it tends to curl your trigger finger up into the palm in a way that (again) a good double action revolver trigger does not.

Even on the autoloader side, I shoot my CZ 75B so much better than the SIG that I'm thinking about trading in the latter and getting a CZ 97 for my .45 -- or just throwing up my hands and finding a nice .44 Mag. to run .44 Special in.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Strambo, Plainsman: Thanks for some pretty damn honest feedback. There is a tendency on gun forums to play a role, or be unobjective with respect to a gun that one owns. I respect and appreciate the advice, I was a little discouraged. I thought Plainsman said, in the paragraph beginning "Re: the trigger"... very much what I was trying to say, but more clearly. Based on the difference in the finish between my barrel before I shot, and after, I'm pretty sure mine had never been shot. It should smooth out, as Todd3465 said. I wonder if there are adjustments. I need to find a Jerry Kuhnhausen book on Sigs

One of the guys on the board of directors for our range runs our Bullseye league. He was telling me I should learn to shoot one handed (you know, at 90 degrees to the target, other hand in the small of the back, Very, Very old school). He said that getting used to that would help a lot, and make it much easier to shoot Iso or Weaver. I'll be damned if he wasn't right. At least about form. I think IPSC is a lot more fun than bullseye.

Worse come to worse, the Sig might be a great tool to teach me to focus more on the trigger pull, and be less concerned with the sights.

I appreciate the feedback though, you're making me determined to overcome this, rather than to just decide I've insufficient skill to shoot DA pistols. I've come a long way with a 1911, this might bring me farther.

But I'll tell you, of the three shooting skills, rifle and shotgun seem one whole heck of a lot more natural and less work!

- ROA

 

[Michael Zeleny]

I find this analysis by Jeff Cooper to be the last word on the subject:

In our recent pistol class we had a couple of Glocks, a revolver, and a crunchenticker. This made it necessary for me to introduce the entire class to the four firing strokes which may be used with the double-action self-loader.

1. The Weaver System. In this method the weapon is fired by cocking it with the trigger finger on the way up. Pressure commences as the piece is raised from "smack" to "look." The pressure is even and so timed that the trigger stroke is completed exactly as the sights are picked up by the eye. This system was used by Jack Weaver in his prime with a revolver, and I can testify that it worked beautifully in the hands of the master. It is difficult, however, and calls for unusual talent and coordination.
2. The Crunch-Through System. This system is most commonly used in law enforcement schools, and it is the least efficient way of using the weapon. No pressure is applied to the trigger until the sights are picked up, at which time the shooter presses straight back (crunch) completing the firing action while attempting to maintain the sights on the target. The second shot is fired with the piece cocked, hence "crunch - tick."
3. Thumb-Cock System. In this system the shooter catches the hammer with the thumb of his support hand when the hands come together at "smack." Then as the piece is pressed up into line the hammer comes back, reaching full cock just at the top of the presentation. This is probably the best method for handling the double-action automatic. It is every bit as quick as the two foregoing systems, and it offers a shooter a cocked hammer for every shot.
4. The Shot-Cock System. With this system the shooter simply flings his first shot down range, cocking the piece with his trigger finger as fast as he can without particular attention to sights or alignment. He then places his second shot from a cocked mode with the precision that affords. This may sound bizarre, but I have seen it work on the range and I have discovered it to work on the street. The interval between the first shot and the second is almost nil, and the first shot just may hit. The shooter, however, concentrates on the placement of his second shot. (I do not teach this system, but I do mention it. Whether it is "correct" or not is beside the point, since it works.)

Anyone who chooses a double-action auto-pistol as his service arm should experiment with all four strokes and find out which suits him best. It takes a master to master the Weaver System. The Crunch-Through System is unsatisfactory. Thumb cocking works just fine for most people. The Shot-Cock System is viewed askance by most instructors, but, as I say, it works and I will not condemn any system which works.

Good luck adapting to your crunchenticker. I gave up trying. My SIG is a P210.

 

[ulflyer]

Couldn't Handle the 220 Either

Several years ago, after reading so much about the 220, I had to have one. Try as I might, I couldn't get any decent groups. Flawless functioning, but groups....none for me. Whether it was me, or the gun, it didn't stay long in my house. Same situation not long ago with a NRM Colt. Splattered all over the target. Tuner tried it and shot it well. But I never could get any accuracy out of it, but had no problem with several other 1911's. Strange, to say the least. It went the way the 220 did. :banghead:

 

[Lofland]

Yet I shot some of the best 1911 bullseye-type groups I ever shot, as well as some of the best CZ groups I ever shot (which could be those 124 Gr Montana Gold JHP(s) I was testing.).

This happens to me whenever I shoot my CZ after a DA session with my 586 revolver. Shooting DA improves your SA shooting.