Sig P229 Barrel question

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

I recently purchased a Sig P229 Dark Elite in 9mm. The gun shoots very well and POI is right on with the sights. I also purchased a threaded barrel for the same gun directly from Sig. The new threaded barrel has tighter groups for some reason at 7 yards but all shots are 1-1.5 inches left of the sight picture. I have swapped the barrels back and forth numerous times with the same results using the same ammo both at the beginning of the shooting session and at the end. I like the slightly longer threaded barrel because for whatever reason (maybe a tighter lockup) the groups are nicer than the stock barrel. I know I can just adjust the sights to compensate but why would I need to? The barrels are from the exact same company for the same gun. Why would one barrel shoot left and one shoot straight? Can I fix the issue with the threaded barrel to make it shoot closer to the sight picture?

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

The gun is on the way to Sig for answers. Not sure if anyone here actually want's to know what it was....

 

[HisStigness]

This has me intrigued as well, as I just got a p226. I'm assuming the dark elite has windage adjustable sights then?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have to admit that I am a bit surprised that you would expect the two barrels to shoot to the same spot. But then I'm even more amazed that folks who add a 9mm barrel to their .40 SIG think they should do that too.

Even though you bought a factory barrel, there are always slight variations in the barrel themselves ( as you've proved with one shooting tighter groups) as well as how it locks up in the slide...both the chamber and the hole at the front. That is the reason the rear sight is adjustable for windage

Just so I understand what you are saying. You are shooting sub-1" groups at 7 yards and one barrel is shooting the same sized groups that are displaced laterally by 1.5"?

So if you were to shoot a five shot group from each barrel, you'd have two distinct groups separated by 1.5"?

I have a feeling that after the factory inspects your gun and barrels, they'll tell you that your shot dispersion is with factory specs

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

Pay for what you get

I would understand a large discrepancy if this were a $500 gun but when you pay over a $1k for a pistol called the "Elite" you expect the best of the lot. All aspects being the same you should be able to switch stock barrels at will, otherwise what's the point? You have to readjust zero for each barrel? Again, same company, same ammo, same range, same conditions, only difference being 3/4" more length to one barrel. I would be very disappointed if Sig tells me "too bad, adjust your sights each time".

And BTW, to make it "worth their while" I bought the $140 "trigger job" from Sig as well. The trigger had grit and creep which is WEIRD for a Sig, at least from MY experience.

 

[HisStigness]

Is the twist rate on the barrels the same? Maybe the extra length gets more velocity and is causing spin drift issues? Just throwing out ideas here

 

[Telekinesis]

I think 7yards is a bit close to be worrying about spin drift

OP, I think you've fallen prey to Sigs marketing - the Elite isn't a Über accurate match grade Sig, it's basically a 229 with a beaver tail.

I'm with 9mmepiphany on this one. Any time you change the gun or the ammo, you MUST expect for accuracy to change. Reloaders fret about the minuta of powder down to the tenth of a grain and how just a little bit of error can completely change a group - and you expect changing out the barrel, the heart of the gun, to have absolutely no effect on accuracy?

If you want to be able to use both barrels interchangeably on the gun, I would recommend buying another slide for your 229 and using that as your dedicated "suppressed" setup. That way you can just slide it right on and you don't have to worry about changing sights.

 

[9mmepiphany]

but when you pay over a $1k for a pistol called the "Elite" you expect the best of the lot.

Sounds like you bought into the marketing spiel.

The Elite was just a marketing package they offered to gauge response to the beavertail and the SRT action...well, they did add forward serration to the slide also. There is nothing they have done to differentiate it's accuracy potential from other production 229s.

If you want the "best of the lot" , you should have gotten an X-Five...but that level of workmanship and fit is only available on their 226. The finest shooting 229 I've ever tried was the 229 Sport.

Just to give you a bit of background, I used to hang out with Bruce Gray, who is the finest SIG pistolsmith in the country. We used to take out customers' SIGs after tuneups for test firing.

The Elite was a great marketing success for SIG, but wasn't functionally superior to other models in their lineup. It appears that the factory has taken some of Bruce's suggestions to heart than thinned the beavertail a bit

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

I appreciate the feedback and yes, I understand the P229 Elite is not a match pistol. But I have three other Sigs that behave really well no matter what I feed them. The Elite is brand new and had two minor trigger issues as well as the barrel change issue. If Sig sends it back and says it's fine, OK, I will live with only one barrel. I am hopeful that the trigger job I bought will fix the trigger issues. After all, I don't like selling Sigs...only buying them.

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

Gun is back from Sig

OK, just received my P229 back from Sig. Here it is by the numbers:

First, if you put a note on top of the gun before you ship it, they don't read it. The armorer only cares about what the Customer Service rep wrote in the notes. The totally disregard any other info.

Second, because of them not reading the note, they did not address the slight trigger sticking issue which is really annoying but the CS rep said it will probably wear through after a few thousand rounds. Nice.

Third, they found the rear sight to be loose and replaced it. They then sighted in the threaded barrel and called it a day. They did not address the discrepancy between barrels whatsoever. Didn't even mention it even though it was the reason it went back. Nice.

Fourth, I paid an extra $139 for the AEP or "Action Enhancement Package". The only difference I feel is the DA pull is lighter by about 1.5 lbs. The hammer spring was replaced by a yellow one (CS could not tell me the pounds???). Funny thing, the yellow paint reacted with their grease and came off when you looked at it. I basically wiped it all off with a paper towel since I did not want yellow paint throughout my gun. The creep in SA was still there and the SA seemed a little lighter but not by much. Certainly not the pound or so they mentioned (4.4 to 3.4).

Last, I bought a feed ramp polish as well. WOW! It looks like there is a lot of metal gone off the feed ramp and it is now a mirror. Haven't shot it but wow, seems like a lot of metal missing. I will check it against others when I get a chance.

OK, so I have not shot the pistol since getting it back but so far I am not super impressed with any of it. I spoke to Sig this morning and they said "send it back if your not happy!". I will see how it shoots then decide.

Question: Is the ANY chance they just replaced the hammer spring and squirted grease everywhere instead of actually doing a trigger job (there was grease oozing out of the trigger assembly)? How can I tell?

 

[Rock185]

Hurricane, I can't comment on SIG's action work because I have not had that done to any of my guns. I will say that I would NEVER expect two different barrels to shoot to the same point of impact, no matter the manufacturer, no matter if it is a $1K gun. The Elite just has different features than other SIGs. It does not get more precise fitting, or better component parts, than any other production SIG of the same basic model. You want an X-5 or P210 for that. Even the best quality barrels, are made to certain specifications. They are not, however,identical. If you got two barrels that happened to shoot to the same point of impact, Serendipity, that's great, but the odds are very much against it. It very well could have been that the threaded barrel shot to POA/POI for you, while the factory barrel shot up/down/left/right,etc. Factory sights are designed to be in the ballpark for most shooters. There is no way to make factory sights, as received, shoot POA/POI for every shooter. I initially test my pistols for POA/POI at 25 yards. Once in awhile, I get lucky and a gun will shoot POA/POI for me. But much more often, sight adjustment is necessary. With a different barrel,all bets are off, and we begin again....ymmv

 

[9mmepiphany]

How can I tell?

Detail strip it and look for the polished contact surfaces

Is the ANY chance they just replaced the hammer spring and squirted grease everywhere instead of actually doing a trigger job

I would never suspect it.

You didn't ask for a trigger job...in the classic sense....that isn't what the AEP is. What they did was clean up the contact surfaces and make sure everything was toward the optimal spec.

A trigger job on a SIG is > $350

The creep in SA was still there

Is it gritty and uneven?

if you put a note on top of the gun before you ship it, they don't read it.

You're right, they don't. Their policy is to work off the work order

They then sighted in the threaded barrel and called it a day. They did not address the discrepancy between barrels whatsoever.

I think I mentioned that earlier. I'd be surprised if they could make two different barrels...especially of different lengths...shoot to the same POA

 

[Jenrick]

A 1.5" discrepancy at 7 yds is a little odd. A 1.5" discrepancy of group center at say 25 yds out of a ransom rest would be perfectly normal. However if the tolerances stacks against you, I can see 1.5" at yards being within spec. One suggestion would be to try the threaded barrel in another 229 and see if it also shows a group shift at close range. That would help show if it's just your gun, or more the barrel itself.

-Jenrick

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

Funny story

Ok, just got back from the range and put about 200 rounds through the P229 Elite. Accuracy was superb. The range was empty and I was getting 1" to 2" groups from just about every distance and shooting stance (except one handed and I am going to take some lessons for that). Function was great, 4 different types of ammo and no issues at all. BTW, I gave up on the two barrel idea and stuck with the threaded one.

So.

Range starts to fill up. Lots of people. I am thinking "I am very comfortable with my abilities so no issue with trying to impress". My groups shift left....almost off the paper. WHAT HAPPENED? The range master gives me look of pity as do all the newbies on the range. I must be tired, maybe my hand is cramping, maybe my shooting glasses are fogged....or...maybe...the rear sight has rattled loose after 200 rounds....thanks Sig. We'll be in touch tomorrow and I may not be as courteous as I have been.

 

[Rinspeed]

We'll be in touch tomorrow and I may not be as courteous as I have been.

Great way to get some very crappy customer service.

 

[Bobson]

It sounds like you're assuming the sight is loose. Is that correct?

 

[Hurricaneforcewinds]

I am kinda done with this issue

OK, so I called Sig about my P229 Dark Elite (and I was nice despite how I felt).

Here's how it went:

Me: My sight came loose after 200 rounds
Sig:Oh yea, the sight will come loose unless you loctite it
Me: When did you tell me that?
Sig: We didn't
Me: Why not?
Sig: Put loctite on it and that will solve your problem
Me: Why did you replace the rear sight for being loose instead of just telling me to put loctite on it?
Sig: I don't know, it was probably out of spec
Me: OK, where in the manual does it mention loctite for the sights?
Sig: I don't know, put some loctite on it and you will be fine
Me: Umm, thanks?
Sig: No problem, thanks for calling!

OK, so I am not going to just start putting loctite on my NEW gun to fix issues. Sig Sauer has a little to learn about educating their customers to the particulars of the $1000 gun they just bought. How about a little bitty note saying please loctite sight after you have zeroed the gun.

But the burning questions is, why did they replace the sight? It was just as loose after shooting as it was when I sent it to Sig. I remember the sight was loose but forgot to mention it when I sent the gun back. There was no difference when they returned it.

I don't know what I expected from Sig, I guess just...more. I have done nothing but rave about Sig for 15 years and now I am feeling a bit let down by this whole mess. I know the gun will probably work well for years to come but what a confusing mess this whole thing was and it could have been avoided with a little better communication from Sig. Even the barrel question should have been addressed, Sig should have echoed the voice here on THR and said "you can't have two barrels with the exact same POI". That's what they essentially said by ignoring the question. The CS rep said I would "LOVE" the difference after the AEP and it would make the gun "A lot more fun to shoot". That put my expectations REALLY high when they should not have been. In my opinion Sig needs work on their communication.