Sight or Optic for shooter with astigmatism

[labnoti]

I was reading about red dots and holographic sites in another recent thread regarding how they handle parallax respectively, but I want to inquire on a different topic that was brought up there:

What works well for a person with astigmatism? I don't have it, but I shoot with a young person who does. I've had astigmatism explained through research, studying it, and I understand how it can smear a red dot, but it's not as easy to imagine and simple myopia for example. The boy wears corrective lenses, but he can still only read like 20/40 with the Snellen chart. His prescription is current and it corrects mostly for astigmatism and for a slight amount of myopia. If I recall correctly, they're like -1.75 diopter, which is not much. I've had him try open sights, a red dot (Vortex Venom), and a 1.5X scope with a duplex reticle. The scope probably worked the best so far. That's just what I had on hand, but I wonder what direction to go in or to avoid if I get sites or optics for him in the near future.

There are a number of threads already about "what red dot sight" with astigmatism, but I'm looking at alternatives too, and not just the holographic.

For example, I was considering a Leupold scope with a fire-dot reticle. But is that going to smear or star like a red dot? How about other illuminated reticles? Any particular brands?

What about an aperture sight?

 

[imashooter]

I don't have an astigmatism but I do have a Vortex Spitfire AR Prism 1x which should work for you. It has both an illuminated dot w/ 2 rings and they are also "etched" in the color black. I usually use the etched. Etched is nice as is but very nice if for some reason the illumination goes belly up. Here's a short video.

More videos: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Vortex+Spitfire+AR+Prism+1x

Not sure if the non-AR model is still available. It was replaced by the "AR".

 

[cdb1]

I have severe astigmatism. When wearing glasses, red dot sights like the Venom and Fastfire are distorted but I can still use them. They aren’t distorted when I’m not wearing glasses. I have a Leupold VX-R and the dot is not distorted when I’m using glasses. I’m also nearsighted and see better through scopes without my glasses. I have no explanation for this other than I’m a native Texan.

 

[chicharrones]

Having an adjustable focus eye piece helps tremendously in making the reticle or dot look like it is supposed to. Whether with a scope or prismatic red dot.

The Vortex Spitfire AR that imashooter shows has a quick focus eye piece as seen in the photo linked below from Vortex.
(see the + 0 - at the top of the ocular lens)
http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/ps_spitfire_ar_bl-t_s.jpg

 

[entropy]

Glasses, toric contacts, or LASIK. (usually not done on kids.) If he has irregular or lenticular (non-corneal) astigmatism, and I suspect he does or it would be corrected with his glasses, there isn't much that can be done short of an IOL, which is also not generally done on children. (IOL=InterOcular Lens implant; the usual treatment for cataracts.) Generally when the percentage of non-corneal astigmatism is low, glasses or toric contacts will suffice. 20/40 is not optimal (obviously) but it is what he'll have to use until he is an adult and can decide to persue other options.
Dioptric adjustments on scopes can help somewhat, but will not entirely correct astigmatism, which is why I shoot with my glasses on.

 

[pblanc]

Well, I would have him actually look through some red dot sights and see how they work. As has been said, many folks with astigmatism who experience a mild-to-moderate degree of dot distortion can still use a red dot sight. If the dot is distorted into more of a comma shape for instance, they simply decide what portion of the comma they are going to use to sight with and zero accordingly.

If that doesn't work, then either a rifle scope or a prism scope are probably the best bet. I do own and use a Vortex Spitfire 1X prism scope even though my degree of dominant eye astigmatism is not too severe and I usually shoot wearing prescription lenses. The Spitfire is a good optic, but it is a bit heavier and less compact than most non-magnified red dot sights, and it is a bit fussier with regards to positioning due to some degree of fixed eye relief.

I have heard of some shooters with astigmatism using a red dot sight that exactly co-witnesses with iron sights using a rear peep sight, and then view the red dot through the peep sight aperture. Looking through the small aperture reduces the impact of the astigmatism.

 

[cdb1]

I’ve never delved into the mechanics of why I see better through a scope without my glasses even though I have pretty severe astigmatism. Common sense says the opposite would hold true.

 

[entropy]

I’ve never delved into the mechanics of why I see better through a scope without my glasses even though I have pretty severe astigmatism. Common sense says the opposite would hold true.

Your focal length is about 3". The light doesn't have as much distance to scatter, though I would have to see your Rx to give a more correct reason.

 

[cdb1]

Next time I get new cheaters I’ll send it to you.

 

[entropy]

Cheaters is the term for mass-produced reader-only glasses; these do not have Astigmatic correction.

 

[cdb1]

Where I’m from they refer to glasses with prescription lens too. At least they do with people who aren’t in the optometry business.

 

[labnoti]

Glasses, toric contacts, or LASIK. (usually not done on kids.) If he has irregular or lenticular (non-corneal) astigmatism, and I suspect he does or it would be corrected with his glasses, there isn't much that can be done short of an IOL, which is also not generally done on children. (IOL=InterOcular Lens implant; the usual treatment for cataracts.) Generally, when the percentage of non-corneal astigmatism is low, glasses or toric contacts will suffice. 20/40 is not optimal (obviously) but it is what he'll have to use until he is an adult and can decide to pursue other options.
Dioptric adjustments on scopes can help somewhat, but will not entirely correct astigmatism, which is why I shoot with my glasses on.

Thank you for the evidently informed reply. He sees an ophthalmologist about every 6 months, and by their counsel, I'm confident the corrective lenses are the most effective treatment for him now, and he will continue to shoot with his glasses on for that reason and for eye protection. As for the rifle optic, I think I'm going to need to have him try a variety of options at the store. I suspect a magnified optic will work best, but with an available low-level of magnification for a wide field of view. He can lose small or distant targets in a narrow field of view (5x) and he may not even be able to see them to realign the scope unless there is some magnification (2x).

 

[Varminterror]

I do prefer prism sights without vulnerability to my astigmatism, but I’ll be honest - I have been shooting red dots and illuminated reticles for a long, long time, 20yrs or more, and it really hasn’t been an issue. My left eye sees a round dot as a comma with a small moon, my right eye sees a big starburst. It’s just an irregularly shaped reticle - put it on the center of the target in the same place every shot, then I hit the center of the target in the same place every shot.

It used to make my brain itch, but I don’t even notice it any more.

 

[imashooter]

I'm interested in the new Bushnell Lil P 1x prism. Don't know if it's retailing yet. https://www.bushnell.com/Products/Red-Dots/Tac-Optics/Lil-P-Prism-Sight/?sku=BT71XPS

Found 2-3 places "in stock" from about 220 - 240.00.

 

[shoobe01]

I have not just astigmatism, but everything. That little chart the doc gives you with your glasses Rx? Every box filled in. Cylinder. Who has cylinder? I can't get any surgery to correct them all.

And yet, I have found RDS + Magnifier the best result for me on a carbine from zero to about 4-500 m. Can hit 12" plates all day long at 300.

In the last 3-4 years I bought a LOT of RDS. A lot. 20? Looked through another half dozen. Many I cannot use at all. Aimpoints are mostly a useless starburst. Not inconvenient, but so bad I cannot hit accurately.

Individual RDS vary a lot. A friend of mine has an old beat up M68 that is perfect. But any other Aimpoint: useless. So be a little careful using single samples as evidence. If you friend has a good sight, don't buy your own assuming that it will work.

Anyway, ignoring really, really weird and old things like the Singlepoint (amazing dot) or Elbit Falcon, the two I use are:

• OLD Bushnell PDP sights. Get on eBay, sometimes for under $40. PDP4 is especially nice. Have two of the PDP series in use.
  • New Bushnell sights are typical chicom crap. Do not buy.
• Meprolight Tru Dot RDS. I have FIVE of them.
  • The ones I have are the non-Pro models. The pro is more expensive for more weight, and a worse knob, but is technically the M5 issued to the IDF, and several other armies now.
  • For the non-pro, think of it as the Aimpoint PRO for the M5. Professional quality sight, with a great dot.
  • NOT all new. Elbit Falcon > MARS > Tru Dot. Same family, and the IDF just grants various makers the contract for each generation. So, it's the third major generation since the 90s. Trust it!
  • Check reviews on places like Amazon for people who actually have it https://www.amazon.com/Meprolight-M...00NSYUJPG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

The best magnifier is the EoTech G.33. Small, light, good flip base, amazing glass (as good as anything $3000 and german I have used on a bolt rifle), focusable, etc. Have two. Three? I forget without looking. Want more of them.

Note that the magnifier will often change the shape of the dot. If you have a distorted dot, and have to pick what part is the aiming point, now you are picking two parts, as it varies whether magnified or not. Which I found to be annoying, so I found a reliably round dot to solve that.

 

[jak67429]

The only real answer is have him try different sights and see what works. I has astigmatism and some red dots are unusable for me. Until recently I only shot iron sights of higher end scopes. Now with my getting older eyes I have a hard time with pistol sights so I switched to a red dot. took me a few tries to get one that worked for me.

 

[readyeddy]

My astigmatism affects my red dot sights and makes them blurry, both my Aimpoint PRO and Bushnell TRS-25. But because I never intended to do any precise shooting with the red dot, it hasn't been a problem. If I had to shoot with precision, I would use the back up iron sights.

Scopes properly focused are clear, reticle and target.

Aperture sights also work where the front sight is usually far enough away so my astigmatism doesn't come into play.

I also wear corrective lenses, progressive for far, intermediate and near. Similar to trifocals but no lines. Anyway, I could correct the blurry red dot if I tilted my head up and used the intermediate lens, but then the target would be blurred.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I have pretty bad astigmatism that was only partially corrected by LASIK. I always see two sets of sights when trying to shoot handguns with both eyes open, and I get a coma shape out of the red dot on my AR-15, esp when using the magnifier. I don't have a whole lot of experience with low power scopes, but usually standard hunting scope set to its lowest power is okay. My advise is to tell him to get used to it. I've been shooting my whole life and still have problems with it. I use red dots okay at close to moderate distance with both eyes open, but handgun sights are still a pain, and I while I am pretty good with aperture sights, I have to close my non-shooting eye to use them. I don't know if there is an ideal solution right now.

 

[greyling22]

Red dots blur for me, but I can still use them ok. Prism sights, eotech, trijicon, fire dot scopes, and traditional scopes all work well for me.

Projection red dots like the trs25 or Burris fast fire do not work well. The worst offenders are the dots the project shapes like the triangle of the Leupold Delta point.

 

[Inazone]

I have a fairly severe astigmatism in my right eye, but have had good results with a Bushnell TRS-32 on one AR and a Vortex Spitfire 1X on the other. The circle-dot reticle on the Spitfire has been a game changer for me.

 

[ShadowsInSnow]

I have noticed that green dot sights are a lot easier to see (for me anyhow). I do not get the flare or halo around the dot like I get with the red color. On a side note- when I am driving, the gas station signs usually have gasoline prices in red lighting and diesel lit up in green. I can read the diesel (green) easier than the gasoline (red) prices and at a longer distance. The red lit numbers have a flare or halo around them. Could just be me though. Any one else notice this?

 

[mustanger98]

With the mention of an aperture sight, I recall reading that some guys over 50 said they can take their glasses off and see sights such as with the M1 Garand and shoot better than with a scope. This isn't universal and may not go anywhere for a kid with astigmatism. But, you don't know till he looks through them.

 

[BigSteve57]

With the mention of an aperture sight, I recall reading that some guys over 50 said they can take their glasses off and see sights such as with the M1 Garand and shoot better than with a scope. This isn't universal and may not go anywhere for a kid with astigmatism. But, you don't know till he looks through them.

That was the case for me until presbyopia took over. Now I use a pair of prescription glasses (Decot Hy-wyd) with the left eye compensated for distance and the right eye compensated for the front sights. I get the yellow color as it makes the black part of the target "pop", so to speak, against the beige part of the target.