Trey Veston
Member
It's only bad if you bought one with revolver capacity and feel the need to justify your choice by belittling larger capacity firearms.
Last edited:
Size comparison Hellcat vs P365
- Thread starter Buckeye63
- Start date
- Status
It's only bad if you bought one with revolver capacity and feel the need to justify your choice by belittling larger capacity firearms.
Old Dog
Member
Always kind of chuckle when I read comments such as this. My experience, after owning and being a pretty heavy user of SIG autopistols over the past 31 years, is that SIG produces one of, if not the, most accurate and reliable out of the box semiauto pistols out there, as well as continuing to be an industry leader as far as innovative designs and improvements.
So this poster would get a brand-new, totally unproven platform over a gun that's been thoroughly vetted over the past few years. Have we learned nothing?
Trey Veston
Member
How many "brand-new totally unproven platforms" has Springfield Armory introduced over the past decade that have turned out to have serious reliability and safety issues?
How many "brand-new totally unproven platforms" has Sig Sauer introduced over the past decade that have turned out to have serious reliability and safety issues?
And by "totally vetted" in regards to the P365, are you talking about pistols still being shipped that are having issues? Because that is apparently still happening and was reported on this very site.
So SA had one issue with the XDS series that they immediately addressed and took care of. Sig has had the infamous P320 issues, P938 issues, the P365 issues, and the rifle issues.
I have nothing against Sig, but I do get annoyed when folks ignore reality and facts for no apparent reason and belittle others for simply stating facts.
Old Dog
Member
Ah, no. Issues get worked out. I happen to own all the recent SIG releases that had problems noted, duly reported and addressed. As an aside (and I'm a pretty astute observer of facts, not prone to giving credence to scattered internet complaints mostly from folks having no experience with the product(s) in question, I'm not seeing any recent issues being reported with the 365, other than the few anecdotal reports containing scant documentation.
Not "ignoring reality" (I've been around here since '04 and am pretty sure that most regulars can detect that I've been honest about the guns I've used) and certainly not belittling others -- I was speaking to the idea of buying a brand new release before waiting to see what issues are reported and need to be dealt with. Every major firearm manufacturer has released new guns that have "issues." And I certainly am cognizant of the "infamous" 320 issues, the 938 issues and the 365 issues, which is why I said I chuckle when I read that people are willing to go out and plunk down money before we see any problems with the new releases getting ironed out ...
Frankly, I don't care if the "Hellcat" turns out to be the greatest pistol since the 1911 (or Glock 17), more power to Springfield Armory (I own only about seven or eight of its products). I am more bemused by all the quick rush to judgement with every new media release about new products, good and bad, than I am interested in comparing the Hellcat to the P365.
Occasionally it seems that some are more interested in proving others "wrong" on the internet rather than engaging in productive discourse about the actual product and its ramifications on the industry and our sport.
Not "ignoring reality" (I've been around here since '04 and am pretty sure that most regulars can detect that I've been honest about the guns I've used) and certainly not belittling others -- I was speaking to the idea of buying a brand new release before waiting to see what issues are reported and need to be dealt with. Every major firearm manufacturer has released new guns that have "issues." And I certainly am cognizant of the "infamous" 320 issues, the 938 issues and the 365 issues, which is why I said I chuckle when I read that people are willing to go out and plunk down money before we see any problems with the new releases getting ironed out ...
Frankly, I don't care if the "Hellcat" turns out to be the greatest pistol since the 1911 (or Glock 17), more power to Springfield Armory (I own only about seven or eight of its products). I am more bemused by all the quick rush to judgement with every new media release about new products, good and bad, than I am interested in comparing the Hellcat to the P365.
Occasionally it seems that some are more interested in proving others "wrong" on the internet rather than engaging in productive discourse about the actual product and its ramifications on the industry and our sport.
Last edited:
Jeb Stuart
member
Rumors of War-
We are now at a time when War's are coming from all directions. Caliber Wars, Round Count wars, Pistol vs Revolver War, Glock vs every-gun wars, and now the great Sig 365 vs Springfield War is coming to our shores.It will be messy, it will be bloody. Dig your foxhole a whole lot deeper and keep you head DOWN,
We are now at a time when War's are coming from all directions. Caliber Wars, Round Count wars, Pistol vs Revolver War, Glock vs every-gun wars, and now the great Sig 365 vs Springfield War is coming to our shores.It will be messy, it will be bloody. Dig your foxhole a whole lot deeper and keep you head DOWN,
Last edited:
beeenbag
Member
All of this equates to benefit for the consumer though. Any time there is direct market competition, buyers will be rewarded with the competitors battling to prevail in that specific market. This is something I really never understood, example, the 260 remington fans that take a hatred towards the 6.5 cm. I mean look at all the bullet options that were created from the 6.5 cm craze, it only benefited the die hard 260 guys. I'm actually surprised it took this long for there to be more competition to the 365. Hopefully more companies follow and we start seeing prices reflect the "war" being fought from a market standpoint.
Meh ... not much of a war I’m interested in taking part in. I actually hope that every manufacturer gets their act together. Sig, Springfield Armory or whoever. Better for gun owners period. I’m just sick of buying new guns and then I have to be the tester and send my gun back to the factory to get it fixed.
I actually like the Sig 365. Held one yesterday at the store. Felt comfortable and it fit in my pocket (Dickies). Maybe I’ll get one at some point. However I still have an AR pistol to build to finish and maybe a Springfield Hellcat to buy.
I actually like the Sig 365. Held one yesterday at the store. Felt comfortable and it fit in my pocket (Dickies). Maybe I’ll get one at some point. However I still have an AR pistol to build to finish and maybe a Springfield Hellcat to buy.
Jeb Stuart
member
I have actually come to a point in my life where I am totally happy with the carry guns I do own. To the fact that a couple of them, I bought a second.
Last edited:
Old Dog
Member
So, one question related to SA's Hellcat -- why has it not come up that Guncrafter Industries has been producing several models named "Hellcat" for quite a long time BEFORE Springfield Armory released the breathtaking news of their pistol?
https://www.guncrafterindustries.com/the-bc-17-hellcat-government/
https://www.guncrafterindustries.com/the-bc-17-hellcat-government/
No. I haven’t questioned it.
Somehow I don’t think anyone will confuse the two ...
HELLCAT™ 3" MICRO-COMPACT 9MM OSP™ - HC9319BOSP
Guncrafter BC-17 “Hellcat” Government
My impression of SIG is that they make some of the best most reliable hammer fired metal framed pistols available. I do not trust their plastic pistols to the same degree that I trust their metal framed pistols though. My hunch is the reliability and superiority of the SIG metal framed pistols has a lot to do with extensive vetting and tweaking by the military that purchased the SIG metal framed guns. I think the Military were the guinea pigs for metal framed pistols that the SIG reputation is built on. I think the P320 could have been an excellent, best gun on the market, if they had won the military contract for replacing the Beretta and the military shook out all the bugs for SIG. That said I think the public is the guinea pigs for the SIG plastic pistols and are identifying the issues that the military would have been identifying if they had adopted them.
One the other hand I don't worship Springfield but darn, they have an excellent track record with their plastic XD series of guns. Top quality, top reliability with the only real down side being that they are reasonably priced. Sure, Springfield didn't design the XD series... but they identified a real winner when they bought the rights to it! The Hellcat appears to be an XD series pistol or at least a direct descendant of them. If only Springfield would have had the foresight to mark some indication on the Hellcat specifying which part I am supposed to hold on to... then they would have had a REAL winner!
Last edited:
zaitcev
Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2016
- Messages
- 1,253
This military finding bugs is precisely what happened with P320. The Army testing found the drop safety issue first. When M17 became available for inspection by the civilians, they found changes that were made to make guns drop-safe. Only then the youtubers started hitting guns with hammers. And the P320 scandal didn't arise because the gun wasn't drop safe -- it could happen to anyone. The scandal arose because SIG knew that guns were unsafe because military found the problem, but they failed to notify civilians and continued selling unsafe versions of P320 until the above happened.
Styx
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2014
- Messages
- 3,248
Preach...
I'd like to add that it would be nice if we could have a Sig, Springfield, Taurus, etc thread w/o people who hate, aren't interested in, and refuse to buy firearms from those companies coming in to derail the OP with their negative vendetta.... Seems selfish IMHO. Why not start your own thread on the topic?
Last edited:
Jeb Stuart
member
Man I am so confused. Heck I am still trying to figure out how the hell they are going to put 13 rounds into the HellCat.
Last edited:
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Beware being the alpha tester, remember the Solo disaster.
johnnylaw53
Member
I was also thinking Ruger may have answered Sig with their own entry into this class of pistols. Make me wonder if they think the security compact will compete with the P365 but in my opinion it is to thick. I would like something close to my EC9S and i mean very close no more the one inch thick and no longer then it. I carry owb with shorts and t-shirt almost all the time and I need a thin weapon.
beeenbag
Member
could maybe fit 13 22lrs in there, which is a concept I may be interested in.
beeenbag
Member
I wouldn't be surprised to see something come from ruger in the near future. In fact I will be disappointed if we don't see something by SHOT.
Zaydok Allen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 13,274
I’d expect all the big manufacturers to come out with a similar design. Except for HK. They don’t wanna.
I've been an alpha tester before, and may again, just know the purchase may need work, or an upgrade, or not. I beta tested the P-365, why not the SA Hellcat? (Well, I have other needs right now, but if not..)
Well, and the fact it isn't singing the Sirens song to me like the P-365 did.
Well, and the fact it isn't singing the Sirens song to me like the P-365 did.
Jeb Stuart
member
If the Sig suites your fancy, fits nicely then I would not either.$500 is a lot of money to me. I think you should at least beta test the SAS. I am in a fortunate in that I do get do be part of testing because of the club and friends I have. We share guns to test. I am sure I will get to be part of the test for the Hellcat. And I am looking forward to it.
Give the Hellcat some time. Maybe when the sirens get a little closer, you will be able to hear them better.
Old Dog
Member
Hmm. That's a practical comparison, although ... he shot neither of the two.
beeenbag
Member
Yeah he doesn’t have any bias at all, especially when he starts the video with the colorful words for Springfield. Not only does that negate virtually any opinion he has about the merits of the hellcat, but him being a general ****** bag in essentially all of his videos attributes to this guy being nothing more than a loud mouth clown. Might as well get him and James Yeager together and let them both tell us how stupid we are for not thinking exactly like they do. Same class of fellows.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
