Skeet vs Trap? newb questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Atroxus

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
192
Location
Marysville, WA USA
I have fired shotguns a few times, but only at stationary targets. I am curious what the difference is between skeet and trap shooting. Also I have a friend that has been talking about going skeet shooting, but is hung up on the fact that he doesn't own a double barrel shotgun. He keeps telling me it's not skeet shooting if you use a pump or auto which he does own already. I am unconvinced because I have seen clay shooting competition(couldn't say whether it was skeet, trap or something else) on TV back in the day and I recall them using auto shotguns for that. Anyone wanna educate me on this sport?
 
Sure, copied straight from the competition subforum sticky.

Skeet – a formalized shotgun contest. Shooters fire a total of 25 rounds from 8 different locations arranged around a semi-circle (well, okay -- technically there are 7 positions around the semi-circle, and an 8th one which is halfway across the semi-circle between stations 1 & 7). Each location is called a "stand" or a "station." Formal competitions usually divide shooters based upon the shotgun gauge being used.
The targets are called "clays," "clay pigeons," or "birds." They are clay discs, somewhat frisbee-shaped but only a hand's width across.
When two birds are flown at once, they are called a double. Each round involves a certain number of doubles, and some variations of this game involve only doubles.
One type of skeet game is called Olympic Skeet, because it is an Olympic sport. But there are lots of skeet competitions at the local, regional, and national level which are not in any way connected to the Olympic event.

Sporting Clays– often described as "golf with a shotgun," sporting clays is probably a more challenging game than skeet although it is very similar to that game in a lot of ways. The clays are launched at different velocities from more locations than in skeet, and the course of fire was designed to mimic bird hunting as closely as possible. Participants typically fire from 14 different stations, with varying numbers of birds being thrown for each station. The total number of shots fired by each competitor usually equals 50 or 100 depending upon the exact game variant being played. The shotguns used can be semi-automatics, pumps, over/unders, or side-by-sides, but if you use a semi-automatic your gun should be equipped with a shell catcher.

Trap – another game which uses clay pigeons. In some versions of this game, the end of the trap (out of which the birds fly) may be set to move back and forth, so that it is impossible to know at what angle the birds will be ejected. Other versions require the trap be fixed in place so that the birds appear to be flying straight away from the shooter on some stations. The shotguns used can be semi-automatics, pumps, over/unders, or side-by-sides, but if you use a semi-automatic your gun should be equipped with a shell catcher. Firing distances vary according to the exact version being played, but the usual distances are from 16 to 27 yards. There are five shooting stations. Shooters usually fire once at each of 25 targets in each round of competition.
There are many different regional and national variations of the basic game.
Some well-known versions include Single Trap, American Trap, Double Trap, Nordic Trap, and Olympic Trap. Wobble Trap is another version which is even more challenging than most other forms of the game.
 
You can shoot skeet with an auto or pump. It's easier with an auto, when you shoot doubles. I shoot both O/U and autos at the skeet range.

Skeet has two houses and 8 shooting positions in a semicircle. Skeet machines throw to one spot, and the shooter moves around for different angles. A round of skeet includes both singles and doubles in a standard sequence.

Trap has one house, out in front, and 5 shooting positions in a slightly curved line facing the house. Trap machines sweep back and forth, so they throw targets at different angles horizontally. Regulation American Trap is always thrown to the same height. Trap is shot from the 16 yard line (front of the shooting area) and from handicap ranges as far as 27 yards from the house. "Wobble" and "Continental" Trap involve different heights as well as horizontal angles, but neither one is a regulation American Trap discipline. Trap Doubles are, but they're shot separately from Singles (16 yards) or Handicap, both of which allow single shots only.

Skeet is generally shot with guns that are similar in geometry to regular field guns. American Trap guns, however, can be very different, specialized things that shoot to different POI, have enormous ribs, strange-looking stocks, etc.

Note the International Trap and International Skeet are different from the American versions.
 
Short version.

Trap shooting involves targets moving basically away from you at slightly varying angles. Skeet shooting involves shooting at right angles, directly away from you and coming towards you with some high shots and some lower.
 
Awesome thanks for the info. I think what I saw on TV back in the day was sporting clays. They had clays come up at all kinds of weird angles, and I think they even came 3 or more at a time, but I am not 100% about that.

Now I am gonna see if I can convince my friend that we should learn skeet shooting on his auto or pump shotguns. ;)
 
Some Trap ranges and a few Trap shooters are friendly, but by and large, you'll have a much better time shooting skeet.

The group of shooters walks around the course together and socializes. Skeet doesn't have those obnoxious automatic throwers that make it so you can't get or give instruction to a new shooter, or even say, "Good job!" without throwing stray birds.

Skeet is also more useful as hunting practice.

Have fun!
 
If you actually have a skeet & trap range in your area, you and your friend would do well to go stand around, observe & ask questions.

You will find the high-rollers shooting over & unders almost exclusively.

But there will be a few folks shooting semi-autos & pumps well enough to make your mouth hang open I betcha!

rc
 
My friend has a membership at a range that has handgun, rifle, trap, 5 station sporting clays, and archery ranges. It's a really nice range, but they have some really annoying rules though or I probably would be a member as well. For example holstered arms can not be loaded. So if you CC you have to unload before entering the handgun range. Rifles other than .22 can not have more than 1 round loaded at a time. Rate if fire on handgun and rifle ranges is limited to 1 round every 3 seconds. I go there with my friend as a guest sometime, but I have a hard time justfying the membership cost with those restrictions.
 
You will find the high-rollers shooting over & unders almost exclusively.

Trap high-rollers will be shooting single-barrel high-rib trap guns almost exclusively, unless they're shooting Trap Doubles at the time.

Skeet can vary a lot more.
 
So if you CC you have to unload before entering the handgun range.

LOL

If you CC, who's going to know? I never figure it's anyone's damn business if I'm not handling the gun. If I am handling the gun, I'll follow range safety rules, and I expect everyone else to do so as well.

Now 3 seconds is stupid. You can't even practice for NRA Bullseye.

And I've been to a range with a 1-round rule for a centerfire rifle. To me, that makes a range relatively worthless. I load my bolt gun from the magazine, even if I'm shooting a shot a minute. When I'm out hunting, I don't want to find out that the gun doesn't feed right. That's what the range is for.
 
Last edited:
LOL

If you CC, who's going to know? I never figure it's anyone's damn business if I'm not handling the gun. If I am handling the gun, I'll follow range safety rules, and I expect everyone else to do so as well.

Now 3 seconds is stupid. You can't even practice for NRA Bullseye.

And I've been to a range with a 1-round rule for a centerfire rifle. To me, that makes a range relatively worthless. I load my bolt gun from the magazine, even if I'm shooting a shot a minute. When I'm out hunting, I don't want to find out that the gun doesn't feed right. That's what the range is for.

In my case I was planning to do some target shooting with my CC weapon. When the person working the counter asked what I would be shooting I showed him my holstered weapon. He then asked me if it was loaded,(who carries empty weapons?) and told me I had to unload it before entering the range.

Oh it gets better they also charge a $200 non-refundable initiation fee, then $125 a year for membership. I think I am just gonna stick to going as a guest. :neener:
 
He then asked me if it was loaded,(who carries empty weapons?) and told me I had to unload it before entering the range.

That's fairly standard, since most ranges want you to place open, empty guns on the bench if there's a cease-fire called. I don't want to walk downrange with any loaded guns on the line, either. Besides, I don't exactly practice with $1.50-per-shot Cor-Bons anyway.:D

The 3-second and 1-shot rules are more of a concern.
 
Skeet, trap, and sporting clays all use those little orange clay targets, but the differences between the games is how those targets are presented. Skeet is shot by moving around a semicircle, and the targets come out of a high house and a low house. They fly the same path every single time, crossing over a stake in the middle of the field. In addition to shooting single targets from the high and low houses on all stations, doubles (one target from each house at the same time) are also shot on stations 1, 2, 6, and 7. Moving around the semicircle from station to station gives you a variety of shots to make, from overhead to quartering to crossers, even though the clay targets fly the same way every time they leave the house. Because you will be shooting doubles on some of the stations, your shotgun needs to be able to hold two shells...in other words, that means an over/under, autoloader, or pump (least preferrable of the three), but no single-shot jobs. Use nine shot target loads and skeet chokes if possible, they will give you the best combination for a good pattern, but 8 shot and/or an improved cylinder choke will work well also. Anything larger than 8 shot or tighter than an IC choke is going to be detrimental.

Trap, except for a specialized event known as doubles, always involves a single target being thrown from a trap house situated 16 yards in front of you. The house conceals the machine from your sight as it moves left and right at random, so you don't know which direction the target is going to fly, except that it will go somewhere away from you. Because you're shooting from a greater distance, tighten the chokes and up the shot size...I always shoot with 8 or 7 1/2 shot and a full choke, but different combinations work for different people. Trap guns only need to hold one shell, and they're instantly recognizable for their long barrels and high ribs (the guns technically shoot a bit high, so that you can hold a bit lower and see the target while breaking it, instead of having to cover the target with the muzzle and lose sight of it).

Sporting clays is probably the most fun, and unfortunately, the most expensive. It's like golf in that you have a course to follow, but instead of playing holes, you go from station to station and break the targets that are thrown to you. Sporting clays is meant to mimic game shots, so the target presentations can vary immensely, and I've seen some people get really creative. The targets also vary themselves: in addition to the normal skeet and trap clay pigeons, sporting clays courses may include "midi" targets (about 3/4 of normal size) and "mini" targets (less than 1/2 normal size...we call them hummingbirds here!). There are also "rabbit" targets that bounce along the ground, and "battue" clays that are thin and fly like a bladed frisbee; it's not meant to mimic any real hunting shot, but just to be a challenge. Even the colors of the targets can change; at our local course here in Maine, orange, black, and white (yes, white...we use white rabbit targets on occasion to replicate a "snow bunny"!) targets might all show up on any given day. The fun of sporting clays is, it's so variable from place to place, and some people really know how to use a course's natural features to put together a fun round. Good setter-uppers will have the targets curling around trees, bouncing behind bushes, and might even add in a few features that would definitely not be found in nature (the rabbit target that ran up a skateboard ramp this summer was a good example!). Another nice feature about sporting clays is that if it's not in ya to actually hunt game (which goes for me as far as birds are concerned...no I'm not a pansy, it's just that I've spend an entire lifetime in ornithology and couldn't really bring myself to kill a bird even if it's delicious!), you can still "hunt" the clays as if they were the real thing.

With regard to your question re: which gun to use, I've seen pleny of guys using pumps and semiautos for skeet, trap, and sporting clays. Break-open guns are preferred in the Olympics and at high levels of competition elsewhere, but I've been beaten plenty of times by someone using a semiauto while I shot my break-open trap gun. It comes down to what works and fits best for you and your physical makeup...some guns just don't fit certain people. If you're on a skeet field, you're shooting skeet, regardless of the gun you're shooting! In fact, there's no need to spend big bucks on a super nice break-open gun unless you're sure it's a sport you want to continue in and invest some money in. Yes, I have a break-open for trap, but that was only after a very enjoyable year of shooting trap with a semiauto and deciding that a break-open BT99 would be money well spent (and even then, I bought it used!).
 
That's fairly standard, since most ranges want you to place open, empty guns on the bench if there's a cease-fire called. I don't want to walk downrange with any loaded guns on the line, either. Besides, I don't exactly practice with $1.50-per-shot Cor-Bons anyway.:D

The 3-second and 1-shot rules are more of a concern.
I agree that the 3 second and 1 shot thing are more annoying. If they ever get rid of those 2 rules I will probably get a membership even if they keep making me unload my CC weapon before entering the handgun range. I don't generally practice with my defense ammo either, thats why I bring extra mags with me to the range. ;)

The other ranges I have been to though had no problems with loaded firearms on the firing line as long as they were holstered. Some even allow drawing from holster to fire. (Another thing not allowed at my friend's range) Those outside a holster of course had to be empty on the bench during cease fires with action locked open, and all guns outside holster are to remain pointed down range at all times regardless of whether they were loaded or not.
 
Of the three mentioned games skeet is supposed to be the easiest to get good at. The birds always fly the same pattern so the shots are the same every time you play the game. Once you get the leads down you're golden. Or so I'm told. I've only ever shot one round.

Trap on the other hand is a little different each time. It's mostly the same which just adds to the frustration when you miss a bird. Right now I'm having the most difficulty with shots that are straight out from me and I'm not alone here. There's a couple more guys on my team that are seeing the same thing.

Sporting clays are a hoot and you never know what you're gonna get. I remember the first time I went out with my trap shooting team to play that game. The very first bird launched perpendicular to you, rolled along the ground, hopped up on a hill so it'd fly about 12' into the air then disappeared behind some trees. You could just _feel_ the group collectively thinking, "Well, this is something different!"

Whatever you decide to try out first I'm sure you'll have fun! They're all a hoot.
 
I have the same problem in trap...the darters to the hard right and left are always easy breaks <knocks wood!>, but the straight shots get me all the time. I think most people see that straight target and think 'Ohboyohboyohboy, a nice easy straight one!" and then pull their head off the stock, rush the shot, and shoot high. That's definitely what I do the vast majority of time...I get overexcited, try to cover it too fast, and don't let the high rib of the trap gun do some of the work it's there to do.

I think the best trap target flights are the ones that are just slightly quartering left or right, so that they fly directly into your hold point when you're on station 2 or 4 (i.e. slightly to the left when on station 2, to the right on station 4). You barely have to move the gun! :)
 
The hardest thing about Trap is keeping your head straight. The shots are pretty easy once you've practiced.

At the club where I shoot now, the annual club championship is won by Sporting Clays shooters. Trap shooters might get perfect scores in Trap disciplines, but generally they can't shoot worth crap unless it's Trap, because regulation Trap shooting is relatively easy. The Sporting Clays and Skeet shooters can hit all the Trap targets they need to, but not vice versa.

Frankly, I quit shooting Trap so I would learn to shoot better in the field. I no longer even own a Trap gun (I can hit the targets fine with a field gun anyway). Trap was holding me back, BIG TIME. Skeet and Sporting Clays are working to cure the bad habits.

What the top American Trap shooters have is a lot more mental discipline than I have. I get bored and my mind wanders. I can't stare at the same target over and over and keep 100% focus.
 
Good info above. One more thing about skeet, if you were to get serious beyond casual rounds - it is a four gun competition, 12ga or smaller, 20ga or smaller, 28ga or smaller, and the .410. So you need, at a minimum, either two guns or a gun that takes tubes. Actually, I guess you could shoot with one gun (a .410) - but I suspect that would be a really big handicap...
 
Last edited:
The main thing about American trap and skeet is that shooters in those disciplines are trying not to miss any targets. Sporting shooters are trying to hit as many as they can. Sounds like a semantic parsing, but if you think about it - at a trap or skeet tournament, missing 1 bird out of 200, 300, or 400 lands you in a tie for something like 29th place - there are that many perfect scores. Shooting becomes a well-timed regimen. Watch a skeet tournament or trap where the target isn't pulled to the liking of the shooter - they call no bird, slow pull; whereas, in sporting, and especially FITASC, there is a greater challenge because every station is different and you are trying to hit as many as you can. FITASC is my favorite because you MUST shoot a low gun, there is a delay up to three seconds, there is no pre-mounting the gun during view targets, there is no mounting the gun before the targets are visible (all of which would drive trap and skeeters crazy).

Depends on the challenges you want to set for yourself and how worried you are about your score - shoot trap and skeet for easier targets and higher scores; shoot sporting and FITASC for challenges that will also make you a better bird hunter
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top