Smith & Wesson 38 M&P Questions

[MasturK]

I'm wondering if anyone can help me narrow some things down on my search for info for my revolver...
It's an S&W M&P 38 ctg. 4" barrel. It has several stampings on it that read "BNP". The serial number is 788400.

Any ideas on the model number and year? I don't want to pay S&W $35 just to find out. Not interested in the gun's personal history. Just want to know the general info. Can anyone help with the info I've provided?

Just wanted to post this update:
Thanks so much for all the info you guys have given me. Maybe you could answer a couple of more questions. When I'm shooting the 38 I've noticed that after a few rounds and the hot sun it seems to struggle to advance to the next bullet. Kind of like it has expanded from the heat. Is this normal for this handgun? Is it because I was shooting 38 specials through it? Should I have it looked at by a gunsmith?

I finally got the photos uploaded. They are on a post below.

 

[Baba Louie]

According to Supica/Nahas' SCOS&W, that number has a date range from 1940-45.
Don't know what the BNP (British Nitro Proof?) stamp is tho'.

Maybe a mod will move this to the revolver forum where a pro will chime in.

 

[SaxonPig]

As the war in Europe heated up, S&W began sending huge quantities of guns to Great Britain. I think that they started using a V prefix in 1942 so I think your gun was made in 1941. The BNP stamping probably means it was supplied to GB for the war effort. Most of the guns sent there were in 38 S&W caliber (not Special) but early on England was so desperate for arms they took whatever was ready to be shipped so during 1940-41 many commercial guns in the American 38 Special caliber were shipped overseas.

 

[Brian Williams]

No model numbers were assigned before 1957 and it was called a Hand ejector Military and Police (M&P), I also agree with the 1941 date,

 

[Will5A1]

Masturk - welcome to the forum, any chances for some pictures?

As I understand it your 4" barrel is a little unusual for a pre Lend Lease revolver, the BNP stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof which would probably indicate the revolver was sold/released from government ownership and run through the commercial proofing process, probably in the 50's.

Any other markings you can describe? On the backstrap? A broad arrow anywhere? Post back and we may be able to pin it down more.

 

[MasturK]

Additional markings

I Have noticed a marking of two crossed swords that has been stamped into it. I also have this on a CZ-52. I've read that it means it was made in a year of combat victory. Does it mean the same thing for the S&W 38?

I see no other markings that haven't already been mentioned. Thanks so much for you r help. (I have modified the original posting with a few more questions)

Notice the photo of the barrel being measured. I'm not a specialist but it looks like the barrel is about 4.25". Last time I just eyed it for the length. This should be the right length unless I'm measuring it wrong.
There is also a close up of the "BNP" stamp on the cylindar.
The rest of the photos are just for fun.

Anybody have a rough estimate on what this piece would be worth on the market? (I know it's tough to tell for sure, just curious of it's value).

 

[Will5A1]

The photos really help - you have a .38/200 British Service Revolver, often referred to as a pre-Victoryin that serial number range, the barrel length is actually 5" (measure from the face, or front of, the cylinder to the end of the barrel) which is typical for .38/200's. It was originally chambered in .38 S&W but may have been modified to fire .38 Special after the war. The crossed swords is probably the British broad arrow, a type of property mark. I believe your revolver would have been purchased through the British Purchasing Commission, that organization bought arms in the states for the Commonwealth prior to the Lend Lease Act, but only a factory letter would tell for sure.

Read the revolver check out sticky by Jim March at the top of this forum and use it on your revolver - the problem could be caused by a number of things. Have you given it a good cleaning?
I've found a lot of old revolvers had thick, hardened grease inside the frame, usually lots of it, and that can affect function. Make sure the face of the cylinder is clean also, and clean under the extractor. If then you still have problems I certainly would take it to a gunsmith.

You managed to get .38 Specials into the chambers? Is the side of the barrel marked still marked .38 S&W? Often when converted the word "Special" would be added.

I would expect that revolver to sell in my neck of the wood for at least $175, and if the finish was original, and nice, and had matching grips, I think it would go for something over $300. They are a neat piece of history and can be fun to shoot also.

 

[XavierBreath]

I suspect your 38/200 revolver had a poorly performed conversion from .38S&W to .38 special prior to it's return to the States. Many of the 38/200s were thus converted by Parker & Hale, among others, to make them more attractive on the US market. Unfortunately, the conversions often result in case ruptures. The .38S&W has a slightly larger diameter than a .38 special round. Once the chambers are reamed for .38 special, the cases bulge or rupture on ignition. They are simultaneously forced back against the recoil plate. The back of the casing binds on the recoil plate because the ruptured or expanded front of the casing is now wedged in the chamber. Thus, the cylinder binds when it tries to turn as the action is worked to bring around the next cartridge.

Can anything be done? Not really. It's tough to put back metal that is reamed out. Sleeving could possibly be performed, but we are talking very thin sleeves here. A replacement cylinder would not have a matching serial number on the rear, thus yielding a non-matching gun worth about the same amount.

Currently your converted 38/200 revolver (also known as a K-200 or a British Victory) is worth about $125, maybe $150 on the open market. Sometimes they sell for $200-250 at gun shows to people who do not really know old S&W revolvers. If your revolver had not suffered the .38 special conversion, it would likely change hands between collectors at $300-350. Never the less, it is an interesting piece, with history punched into it. It helped win a war and then returned home. Preserve it.

Here's more information.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

Well, if you reload and shoot only .38 S&W through it, that should solve the binding problem, right? Of course this probably isn't the solution the OP had in mind.

 

[MasturK]

More Investigation from your info

Thank you so much for your help gentlemen. I would like to follow up on your input that you have given me...

It is a 5" barrel with the "1941" serial number on the handel butt. I will disassemble the frame to clean the internal parts to see if that fixes the "snag" that I have been experiencing during high heat situations.

The serial number on the handle does match the serial number on the cylinder, and there is no indication that there has been a conversion from 38 to 38 special (by way of post-stamping or inscription) so this handgun must be completely original as I was told on time of purchase. Even the handles look original due to the wear and tear.

Yes I can shoot 38 specials through it as I was told that they are an acceptable round to use (by my gun retailer that is a personal friend that I trust with this knowledge.) They are a bit more lose than regular 38's but the accuracy is still incredible.

The Questions...
1. Should I not be shooting 38 specials through this pistol? I've been told that specials work in it a 38 but regulars won't work in a special. The specials are a bit loose but as I have said, the accruracy is incredicle nonetheless.

2. I would like to restore this handgun so I can eventually pass it along as a valuable piece of history. Would re-blueing/blacking (or even nickeling) reduce the value or increace it?

3. Do I risk damaging the handgun's performance by the use of the cheaper 38 specials?

4. I've noticed that lead projectiles leave a horrible trace amount in the barrel. Should I use primarily FMJ's to keep the barrel in a more perfect condition or does it really matter?

Thanks again for your expertise.

 

[XavierBreath]

there is no indication that there has been a conversion from 38 to 38 special (by way of post-stamping or inscription) so this handgun must be completely original as I was told on time of purchase.

It was converted. .38 special cartridges will not fit in a .38 S&W chamber. The 38 S&W chamber is to short. The 38 special cartridge is to long. If the seller of this revolver is telling you otherwise, either he is ignorant or he is lying. The original cylinders were reamed out to accept the 38 special cartridge on the conversions. Thus the serial numbers will still match.

1. Should I not be shooting 38 specials through this pistol? I've been told that specials work in it a 38 but regulars won't work in a special. The specials are a bit loose but as I have said, the accruracy is incredicle nonetheless.

If they don't bind the cylinder and they shoot OK, then it is safe to shoot. They will eventually burn the rifling out of the barrel as the bullet will have ignition gases escaping past it.

2. I would like to restore this handgun so I can eventually pass it along as a valuable piece of history. Would re-blueing/blacking (or even nickeling) reduce the value or increace it?

Refinishing a collectible handgun will destroy it's value to a collector, unless it is a professional job done by a top flight company such as Turnbulls. These jobs usually start at $800-1000 and go up from there. Even then, most collectors will not touch it. In a S&W HE revolver, there are just to many examples around. It's not cost effective. On a rechambered gun, the collector's value is already gone. Do what you like to snazz it up. I would try to preserve it though.

3. Do I risk damaging the handgun's performance by the use of the cheaper 38 specials?

No. Avoid +P. Cheap ammo is probably your best bet because it's slower.

4. I've noticed that lead projectiles leave a horrible trace amount in the barrel. Should I use primarily FMJ's to keep the barrel in a more perfect condition or does it really matter?

That's from the ignition gases escaping around the slug as well as lead fouling. If you use lead, the bullet will seal better, but of course, cleaning is more of a chore.

 

[ugaarguy]

On a rechambered gun, the collector's value is already gone. Do what you like to snazz it up. I would try to preserve it though.

Following up on XB's comments, since it's already a rechambered gun, you might as well get a surplus .38 S&W cylinder here thereby keeping it preserved in the original caliber at least. Alternately you could look through their other parts and get both a surplus barrel & cylinder in .38 special if you want to shoot the less expensive ammo in it.

 

[Will5A1]

I'd stick with .38 S&W ammo, Graf & Sons (google them, I've lost the web address) was selling .38 S&W for under $15 a box, I think it was Magtech.