So I want to buy a "battle-rifle"

[outfieldjack]

Ok trusted THR members.... I have two hunting rifles, Shotguns, pistols, etc.... now I have an itch to purchase a "battle-rifle." Granted, I don't know much about them but I have been doing some research. I plan to spend between $500-$1,000. Right now I just want the rifle.... I'll "accessorize" later. I have absolutely NO preference to anything right now.... AK-47, AR-15.... I'm here to get YOUR opinion!

I'd rather spend enough $$$ up front to get a rifle that I can build upon for the next few years. I'm looking for a good base right now and spend the $$$ later on the put a good scope, light mount, etc....

So, what should I look for? I do want a caliber that is inexpensive to shoot. I don't PLAN on using this gun for hunting, but if I can get something that will work for that, all the better. This gun will be used for punching paper, and whatever else I put in the cross hairs.

What type, brand, etc?????

I appreciate any and all comments.

Thanks,
Outfieldjack

 

[spacemanspiff]

build your own AR... save money, get the best parts out there.

.223/5.56 is relatively inexpensive.

if you must buy one, people say great things about bushmaster. and RRA, and DPMS. or go all out and find a Colt. then you can join the lot of us who are scorned by those who dont have 'authorized dealers' that will sell them the cool toys.

 

[InfernoMDM]

I cant help you out with the AR-15 as I absolutely hate that weapon. Mainly due to the fact everyone I have touched has jammed. That being said there are companies and modifications that bring down jaming. Also moding out a AR-15 is a lot of fun or so many of my firends say. I know many people on here love the rifle and I tend to agree it has some damn good accuracy, but I cant get over all the jams I have had in my life. :banghead: Sorry.

I personally own a AK-47 (SAR romanian). I have had the pleasure to shoot seveal of these rangeing from the romaian to a very accurate and well manufactured Bulgarian. The only Jam I have ever had with one of these was a bent magazine. They are great all purpose weapons and come with tons of new rail features etc. They are also dirt cheap and between 500-1000 you could turn a AK out with tac lights etc.

I also would like to offer another opinion and my current goal. A M-14 (308) rifle. Although not what I would consider a CQB weapon (not that the M-16 or AK have anything over a MP5 in size) but it has reach. I have seen tons of these moded out to no end.

Before you purchase Id suggest going to your local range and renting all 3 plus I think a few HK battle rifles like a G3(forget the civilian version cetme puts out a terrible knock off) are all at your disposal for purchase. Fire and play with all of these and see what FEELS the best for you.

Also let the wiser old men her nit pick about functionality and more personal and insightful information. As of right now I just wanted to be the ass and get out the basicks first.

Also I might ad AK ammo 7.62 is cheaper genrally then 5.56 and there are select places you can get pretty cheap 308. I own a SL8 and buy both and tend to see a 20 dollar plus saveings on the AK.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Look at FALs, Cetme's, and M1A's. Hard to go wrong with any of these, though we all have our preferences.

 

[Devonai]

I've owned several "battle" rifles, and they each had their benefits and detriments. The only one I've kept over time is my Enfield #4, which is pushing most people's definition of a battle rifle these days. So, let me summarize my past:

M1 Garand: If you need to deliver a .30 caliber, 150 grain bullet to 600 yards with ease, this is your choice. Ammo is plentiful as are clips. Unfortunately mine was temperamental. I spent much time and money trying to get it to run efficiently with mixed results. I sold it because I neede money for car repairs.

M1 Carbine: Benefits are that it's light, has little recoil, and magazines and ammo are cheap. The detriments is that it's effective range is somewhere around 300 yards. I sold mine after the bolt disintegrated during extreme cold weather shooting. I plan on buying another one someday, but I will buy new (either IMI or Auto Ordnance) rather than USGI.

AR-15: You can't go wrong with this choice for extreme tacticality. Benefits are that there are endless accessorization options, ammo is very cheap, and the learning curve is short for accurate shooting. Mine was reliable with live rounds and I did not experience a single jam. The detriments are that it runs dirty and shoots a .22 caliber round, muzzle velocity notwithstanding. I sold mine because I couldn't justify having $1400 tied up in a rifle (back during the ban). If I really wanted another .223 I'd probably get the Kel-Tec SU-16 just because it's less expensive and I still own seven M-16 magazines.

 

[varoadking]

Here ya go...



THE Battle Rifle...

http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m1garand.msnw

Get Clayton to whip you up an all USGI M1 garand with a new Wilson barrel, Wenig walnut stock, and fresh park job for $800.00.

Barrel it in .308 and take advantage of cheap Mil Surp 7.62x51 ammo, and pick up some clips.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=148318

You have all you'll ever need - though you'll invariably want more...

Go this route, and you will thank me...

 

[Feanaro]

Consider a CETME/G3 from CAI. The CETME version is around $350, the G3 $500. The biggest difference is that the G3 can use more parts(the CETME can use many G3 parts but some modification is often required), has a normal selector switch(Up safe, down fire. Reverse for CETME), and a slightly better rear sight. CAI has had some QC problems in the past but they seem to have cleared up, mostly. The problems that remain are generally fixed pretty quick. Some people don't like the ergos though, so you might want to handle one before you buy. In fact, handle anything before you buy if possible.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Two major schools of thought for semi-auto military-type rifles, roughly summarized:

Main Battle Rifle: generally in .308 caliber, usually hold 20 rounds, heavier and more cumbersome than the below, but arguably more usable range, more punch-through, etc. Example: M1 Garand, M1A (civ M14), HK-91 (civ G3), AR-10 (.308 version of AR-15), FAL, etc.

Homeland Defense or "Assault" Rifle: generally in .223 or 7.62x39mm, lighter and easier-handling than the above, but in less-powerful cartridge. Generally hold 30 rounds in the mag. Example: Ar-15, AK-47 (in it's civilian guises), SU-16, SKS.

The above is a dramatic oversimplification, but is there to illustrate that there are two very, very different directions to go here, both of which have their share of adherents.

Worth noting is that Sarco has a sale on the PTR-91 (US made HK-91 types of good reputation) for $685 for their Holiday Sale (www.sarcoinc), and you can still get an M1 Garand in 30-06 for $295 from www.odcmp.org If you want to go the .308 route, those are both some pretty great deals. Check out the "search" button on THR to scan through years' worth of debate on .308 vs. .223 vs. 7.62x39mm, and every rifle above vs. every other rifle above. Provided you buy a decently made version of any of the above, it's pretty much a matter of personal preference.

Have fun making your final choice, -MV

 

[DMK]

It realy depends on how much you want to spend and what you want to do.

I have a Garand, a FAL, a SAR1 AK, a couple ARs and more than a couple SKS. I love them all. Each has it's own benefits and drawbacks.

Garand: A popular favorite here. I got mine from CMP. It was a service grade Springfield and wasn't very accurate. I sent it off to get restocked, rebuilt and rebarreled to .308 It's always been rock solid reliable, now it's much more accurate and looks beautiful. I love to shoot it, it has excellent sights and I really like reloading with Enbloc clips. Drawbacks: It's fairly heavy and long. One of the annoyances of this rifle is that you can't clean the barrel from the breach end with a cleaning rod. I use a bore snake most of the time.

FAL: I built an 18" carbine from parts. It's AK like reliable, shoots .308, has good sights (adjustable peep), easy to field strip and clean but shoots maybe 3 MOA. It's certainly a favorite to shoot and gives me warm fuzzies about it's firepower with a case of cheap 20 round mags, but it's no tack driver. It's also kind of heavy.

AK SAR1: Light weight, handy with it's short length, cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, cheap hicap mags, little recoil, legendary reliability and easy to field strip and clean. Drawbacks: crude design, poor ergonomics, 4 MOA accuracy, hard to see sights. Certainly not a tack driver. My least favorite of the five types.

SKS: The basic SKS like a Romanian, Russian or Norinco is bit longer than the AK. The sights are similar, but does have the slight benefit of a longer sight radius. The SKS is a more solid design. It feels more substantial and most are a little more accurate than the AK without giving up anything in reliability. I prefer the SKS to the AK, but they are still fairly inaccurate rifles.

AR: These are my favorite. I built a 20" and a 16", both have lightened chrome lined barrels and both have flat top recievers. Both rifles are 100% reliable and MOA accurate. The AR requires a little more attention to detail when cleaning, but feld strips easily. The rifle is light, very accurate, has excellent sights, has practically no recoil and just loads of fun to shoot. I have a red dot mounted on the 16" and on the 20" I can easily swap back and forth between a scope or it's removable carry handle/sight.

 

[mustanger98]

Another vote for M1 Garand. It's not a Swiss Army knife, but it's solid and delivers a substantial round to 600, 800, even 1000yds if the shooter is capable and knowing.

British Lee Enfields are cool too. And you can get micrometer aperture rear sights for those. Again, not a Swiss Army knife, but solid and dependable.

 

[borderguy]

For absolute simplicity and dependabilty the Romanian SAR-1 AK is hadr to beat. Cheap, Simple and Efficient.

That being said, I have 1 AK and 4 AR-15's. The AR is hard to beat in terms of different uses. They are a far classier weapons than the AK and more refined. I have never had any sort of problems with my AR's from the Cheap Oly ARms to my Colt 6920. Absolutely reliable.

Both the AR and AK are 300 yard rifles. Though the AK's 7.62x39 makes a better hunting round should it come to that.

For a "Battle Rifle" Think .308 or 30.06. HK Types, FALS, M1A's and Garands fall into this catagory. All are well though out, well functioning rifles. I have the SAR-8 Greek copy of the HK-91 and it's a great rifle.

If I was to spend $500-$1000 for a couple of base rifles, I'd get an AR-15 and either an SAR-1 or a CMP Garand. The SAR are Garand are usually good to go for about $400.00 amd you should be able to build and AR for $500.00 or so.

 

[Trebor]

Varoadking,

Is Clayton's $800 for a complete rifle out the door with NO parts supplied by th customer? Or does it assume you sent in a receiver for the build?

If it is complete, does he offer a discount if you send, say a Greek Rack Grade, in for the service?

Thanks

Rob

 

[varoadking]

Is Clayton's $800 for a complete rifle out the door with NO parts supplied by th customer?

The $800.00 (plus shipping) is for a complete rifle - NO parts supplied by the customer. Hard to believe, eh? This is the best bargain out there, IMHO.

Yes, send him your M1 and he will rebarrel, refinish, restock, and/or whatever you want according to his price structure. If you only paid $295.00 plus shipping for the rifle from CMP, I think you can send him your Garand and do all of the above for $425.00 plus the 2 way shipping, and still get out right around the $800.00 total. You do save any FFL transfer fee this way.

Check out the menu...

http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m1garand.msnw

Call him to discuss - he's a good guy and will tell you what he can do an how fast he can do it. I would think winter would be the best time to get him started on your project as he runs a farm operation as well. Verify the new Ackerly, Texas Area Code - it may be different from what is on the web site link above.

Good luck...

 

[Flinter]

I'd recommend a SA-M7 from Arsenal. It's the cream of the crop in AK's.

 

[NEtracker]

If you can, get a CMP M1, plus an AR. Use them both, see what you want to keep, it may be both! Sell the one you don't want.
Myself, I have AR's, M1's, M1 Carbines in the stable.
Good off-the-shelf AR's are RRA, Bushmaster. My opinion, RRA yields the best $ value of the two. Bushy's tend to be pricey. Don't overlook a nice used AR to save some bucks.

 

[KW]

Another option besides the usual AK/AR is the Vector V93 (HK93 clone).

If you do decide to go the AR route I would suggest building a stripped lower and getting an upper from www.cmmginc.com. My 16" M4 upper from them has been flawless.

 

[GlocksRock]

Yes, another vote for the M4 CMMG Inc. upper, mine has been very good too. I bought a complete Stag Arms lower from www.eaglefirearms.net and the two go together really well.

 

[NMshooter]

If you have the opportunity, get out there and shoot as many different rifles as you can. If you do not, but have money to spend, look at the AR. If you do not want to spend much money, consider an AK.

Unless you know what you are looking at, or have someone who does to help, get something new, from a reputable manufacturer with a decent customer service department. Be aware that all manufacturers make lemons, though some more than others, and that you should give them the chance to fix any problems you have.

Check your state hunting laws before hunting with a semi-auto, some states have funny rules regarding what firearms one may hunt with.

And remember, if it isn't fun, you can find another that is.

 

[target4fun]

My recomendations on a "battle rifle" I own a m1,m1a,sks,and ar-15, and have shot cetme's.

AR-15 simply put isnt a battle rifle in my opinion and im not the only one who see's it this way pick up the book "boston gun bible" a great book that shows alot of different aspects of different rifles that you looking for i think if you get this you could save your self from getting something you dont want, an ar-15 is a good target rifle if all your going to be doing is punching holes in paper, there have been many combat reports that the .223 round isnt capable of taking down a human effectively the same is true for deer which is why its illegal in most all state's to hunt deer with a .223 round its a varmint round for ground hog's, the ar-15 also isnt suited for battle condtions as battle rifles.. like m1a m1 and sks again im biast but i do own a ar-15 for competion target shooting...

The m1 rifle is a really good rifle but being that the .30/06 ammo isnt cheap i wouldnt get one in that cal. I have one in .308 its a dream, and this would be ideal because ammo is often cheaper for .308 than for .223 the surplus for .308 is very cheap and good stuff! More bang for your buck, the west texas ordinace rifle is a great deal and looks to be in the price range you quoted, and would be my reccomendation. If you wanted the capablity of having a higher firepower rifle i would go with a m1a its 20 shots instead of 8, is the 12 extra shots worth it to you? If so go for the m1a its a excellent rifle! I would do some reading about it before i bought to give your self and idea of what you really want again boston's gun bible is a great book for that.


GOOD DEAL! ::
http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m1garand.msnw

 

[Marcus]

Judging strictly by the original question I`d have to say you`ll probably be happiest with a good AR. Bushmaster comes immediately to mind. I`ve never been a real AR fan but I have to admit there is no more versitille platform out there. You can literally make the rifle into what you personally want. Calibers from .22LR-.50BMG are a 2min. swap away. If you buy a new one I`d get a flat top for the added flexibility. Other than that try a bunch out and see which configuration you like best then dress it up with whatever goodies you like. I finally gave into the AR bug and picked up a real nice used Bushy 16" HB with extra CAR stock. I hate to admit it but it`s been very reliable so far and shoots darn well. I`ve been feeding it a steady diet of Win. white box bulk ammo from Wally World. It`s as cheap a most of the surplus ammo, accurate,clean and I can just pick a few boxes up each time my wife needs something at the store. I added an Ergo Grip and Grip Gapper,a sling and an M4 stock with rubber butt pad to increase the LOP. Next step a red dot (wish mine was a flat top) and a Ceiner .22LR conversion. Would it be my first choice if I was going into combat? No. But it`s a lot of fun at the range and fun to buy tacticool doo dads for too. Marcus