So. Texas .243 deer load needed.

[Strongbad]

This thread and others like it make me happy that I have the means now to have many more rifles for my boys to choose from (once they get old enough) than I had starting out. When I started hunting it was the 243 or... the 243, and I certainly wasn't going to be doing any shooting with my father's 300 H&H. In a few years when my boys are big enough, they'll start out young with all manner of 22 LR's then move up to my 22-250 bench gun. All the noise with zero recoil.

Popper I'm in the Austin area. Don't know how close you are, but any of my stuff is at your (and his) disposal for the price of a range card at the local range. Just say the word.

 

[35 Whelen]

There is more to the physics then just a lighter bullet. Lighter bullet doesn't mean less recoil.

Exactly. That's why I said "...bullet weight plays a big role in recoil." I DID NOT say that bullet weight is the ONLY thing that contributes to recoil.

Did you sleep through Physics class? ALL things being equal (powder charge, velocity, etc.) with a lighter bullet, recoil WILL be reduced in every instance. Again, simple physics. But on top of that, a bullet weighing, say, 80 grs. requires a smaller amount of powder to achieve the same velocity as a bullet weighing 100 grs., and a lighter powder charge coupled with a lighter bullet will reduce recoil. I'm not here to split hairs and argue how much recoil is reduced, only to say that it IS reduced by using a lighter bullet. If you don't believe me, go here: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp and calculate it for yourself.

35W

 

[kingmt]

Did you sleep through Physics class?
I'm not here to split hairs and argue how much recoil is reduced, only to say that it IS reduced by using a lighter bullet.

Other then the smile & wink It does look like you are trying to argue. It appeared to me you was saying by changing to a lighter bullet was all he had to do. I just wanted to add a little to your comment.

ALL things being equal (powder charge, velocity, etc.) with a lighter bullet, recoil WILL be reduced in every instance. Again, simple physics. But on top of that, a bullet weighing, say, 80 grs. requires a smaller amount of powder to achieve the same velocity as a bullet weighing 100 grs., and a lighter powder charge coupled with a lighter bullet will reduce recoil.
35W

All of that should be true most of the time. I don't now about the powder he is using but as I'm sure you know smokeless powder needs pressure to burn. Each powder needs a different pressure to burn correct. If you use a lighter bullet you probably need more pressure which means more powder & probably more recoil. It isn't simple physics it is actually pretty complex. I do a lot of reduced recoil & the thing that makes the most difference is the powder burn rate.

If your thinking of the basket ball vs baseball experiment in a roller chair the bullet size is just to insignificant.

Your recoil is the pressure leaving the barrel not the bullet.

Now if the powder will burn right with less powder to get the bullet to go the same speed. It would have to have less recoil. My pick is always a lighter bullet with fast powder that can do this. If I'm using a slow powder that needs its mass of bullet or volume of powder to get its pressure then my shoulder picks heaver bullet.

 

[35 Whelen]

Your recoil is the pressure leaving the barrel not the bullet.

Umm....no. The major part of recoil is the rifle reacting to a bullet leaving a barrel. (This is why muzzle brakes are less effective on rifles that fire heavy, slow moving bullets) If pressure leaving the barrel caused recoil, then a cartridge case filled with powder (no bullet) fired from a rifle would recoil which we know is untrue.

If you'll use the calculator above, you'll see for yourself. Using rough .243 ballistics for example:

A 10% increase in powder charge with bullet weight and velocity remaining the same results in an approximately 7% increase in recoil.

On the other hand, a 10% in bullet weight with powder weight and velocity remaining the same results in an approximately 12% increase in recoil.

...but as I'm sure you know smokeless powder needs pressure to burn.

Nope. Powder burning creates expanding gas which in turn creates pressure if it is contained in an enclosed area such as a cartridge case. If smokeless powder needed pressure to burn, then it'd be impossible for me to pour a pile of powder on my shop floor and light it and have it burn.

35W

 

[41 Mag]

The issues around using a reduced load is to match the bullet to the impact velocity. In other words you can use which ever heavily constructed bullet you choose and like mentioned it will pencil right on through expanding little if any depending on the velocity at which it impacts. Take the same load and use an SST or BT, and your expansion goes up dramatically. However you won't see much of the over expansion or explosiveness that is seen with top end velocities.

When I worked up the loads for my grandson, I researched several bullets, and spoke to every manufacturer about what the minimum velocity it took to get at least a double caliber expansion. I did the same thing when working up loads for my Contender so I knew about what my max range would be.

Using the 100gr SST or the 95gr Ballistic tip will result actually in better penetration and more controlled expansion at slower impact velocities.

As to the recoil with such loads, the type of powder used can and does usually play a role in this as well. Where H4895 is a medium to slow powder in the faster range, dropping back to an even faster one like IMR 4198 will result in even less recoil, but the issue is much smaller range for a load for a particular bullet weight.

Using the Hodgdon loads I personally have killed feral hogs up to 200# out to ranges of 200+ yards, so I know they work at least in the .308. I have no doubts that by choosing one of the better bullets available today that the .243 can easily be had to shoot with less recoil than what I get from my 6.5# rifle, and my 3yr old grandson had no issues with them after he determined they weren't going to hurt him. I fully admit that the first three rounds he shot, welled up tears in the corners of his eyes, but he wiped them away and hunkered down and got on with it. Heck I'm 6' and 210# and that little rifle with factory loads is a bear to shoot off a bench.

 

[kingmt]

Nope. Powder burning creates expanding gas which in turn creates pressure if it is contained in an enclosed area such as a cartridge case. If smokeless powder needed pressure to burn, then it'd be impossible for me to pour a pile of powder on my shop floor and light it and have it burn.

If you don't know any better then that then there is no use for me to even try. You need to have an idea how powder burns. Try getting some WC872(it's cheap) pour that on your flour & light it. Put some in a .375 case & fire it. Then come back with your ideas.

 

[35 Whelen]

If you don't know any better then that then there is no use for me to even try.

Good choice. You're painting yourself into a corner!

35W

 

[kingmt]

I think you have already shown your lack of knowledge on how powder burns so your insult isn't challenging.

I think this thread has been taken far enough off course & I refuse to turn it into a mud flinging war. I wish you the best in the quest for knowledge.

 

[[email protected]]

I have been done a little work with the 243 a couple months ago. My primary deer rifle is a 270win. but I had a motorcycle wreck last year and my shoulder cant take the recoil. I shot my 270 last fall and after two rounds I decided to just wait that season out. It is getting that time of the year again and I shot my 270 again and like before the recoil got to me. I started to flinch after two rounds and I stopped there. I picked up a used ruger 243 that is the youth model for my son last year (he's four years old) and I am considering using it. With the short barrel I know the velocity will not be the best so I will be happy as long as it is reasonable and is accurate at 200 yards. My first rounds was with reloader 22 and it seemed that recoil was more than it should be with the 100gn sp that I loaded. Next I am going to try H4895 or H4831sc or IMR7828. I have some blc2 that I also would like to try.

 

[35 Whelen]

eam:
A lighter charge of faster burning powder will help some, but you'll realize the most recoil reduction by combining the lighter charge of faster burning powder with a lighter controlled expanding bullet.

Good luck,
35W

 

[kingmt]

BL-C(2) is great in the caliber but Blue Dot will take the recoil away. I'll second what 35 Whelen said. Slower speeds is what keeps that little bullet together for perpetration.

 

[kingmt]

Some fast powder like Blue Dot or even Red Dot might make you pick up that .270 again.