So what would you do?

[bensdad]

Looks like another fine example of what the civil rights movement and the government-media complex has brought to our culture - another ungrateful, angry, hateful black man filled with rage.

Wow, that's not what I saw. I guess as a point of philosophical debate your statement has merit.

What I saw was a savage who can't/won't fit in with accepted social norms. When he acts this way in the wrong place or at the wrong time, he goes to jail. When he acts this way in the REALLY wrong place or time, he'll be killed.

Obviously, I don't know what I would have done as a witness to this assault. From the comfort of my keyboard, I think I would have drawn on him.

 

[kingpin008]

This thread is getting more ridiculous by the moment.

Reported for lock.

 

[jakemccoy]

Everybody's standing around like they see this type of fight everyday. They don't seem to be in shock. It's more like they know the victim and don't mind seeing him die. My first reaction is confusion as to why they're standing around calmly. My second reaction is anger at the grown men standing around. My third reaction is anger at the instigating whore.

 

[Deleted member 66305]

Texas law permits use of lethal force in defense of another. That being said, I think I'd be very likely to sit tight with my hand on my weapon, still concealed, in case some of that violence got directed my way.

 

[jakemccoy]

People shouldn't want a lock on this thread. This video is a real situation that can really happen. To people that don't want to consider this situation, how are you training? Are you using your own imagination? Are you shooting at stationary targets and getting your confidence that way only? Are you watching movies and imagining scenarios from the movies? If you don’t want to discuss real life situations that can happen to anyone, why are you on a gun sight that clearly has a population interested in learning about defensive gun tactics for REAL LIFE?

 

[Grizfire]

Folks, our country was NOT founded on "it's too risky to get involved".

Do what you want, but THAT attitude is NOT what founded our nation and is NOT what our forefathers valued. What have we become as a nation when our "men" will not band together to fight for what is right?

"Break with England? It's too risky to get involved."

"Indians attacking the Johnson's? It's too risky to get involved."

"Arab dude taking over our airplane? It's too risky to get involved."

This attitude is NOT American and why our country is slowly turning into a third world nation.

It's NOT being a "hero", it's doing the RIGHT thing that you KNOW is right deep down in your heart. Thugs COUNT on the fact that in today's society American "men" will NOT do the right thing because "it's too risky to get involved" and time and time again thugs are indeed STOPPED by somebody stepping up and doing the RIGHT thing.

You DON'T have to be 6'4" 280 lbs, or a MMA fighter to be a man, all it takes is the SPIRIT and the WILL to do the RIGHT thing. If you LEAD, others WILL follow. Courage is NOT the absence of fear, it is carrying on DESPITE being afraid.

Do the right thing. Be a man.

That sound very heroic and patriotic of you. However, many people who feel they are doing the right thing by getting involved end up getting hurt, killed or thrown in jail.

Each situation is unique and should be thought out logically, rather than by simple fight or flight instincts.

Sorry, but in this particular situation, I can't risk getting killed, hurt or thrown in jail for a stranger, when my family needs me. Now if it was United flight 93, your damn right I'm getting involved.

 

[bensdad]

Sorry, but in this particular situation, I can't risk getting killed, hurt or thrown in jail for a stranger, when my family needs me. Now if it was United flight 93, your damn right I'm getting involved.

I'm guessing the victim's family kinda needs him too. Be nice if someone who was in a position to help would do so. I'm not judging your perspective, just adding mine.

 

[bensdad]

Here in Minnesota...

609.06 AUTHORIZED USE OF FORCE.
Subdivision 1. When authorized. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 2, reasonable force may be used upon or toward the person of another without the other's consent when the following circumstances exist or the actor reasonably believes them to exist:
(1) when used by a public officer or one assisting a public officer under the public officer's
direction:
(a) in effecting a lawful arrest; or
(b) in the execution of legal process; or
(c) in enforcing an order of the court; or
(d) in executing any other duty imposed upon the public officer by law; or
(2) when used by a person not a public officer in arresting another in the cases and in the manner provided by law and delivering the other to an officer competent to receive the other into custody; or
(3) when used by any person in resisting or aiding another to resist an offense against the person; or
(4) when used by any person in lawful possession of real or personal property, or by
another assisting the person in lawful possession, in resisting a trespass upon or other unlawful
interference with such property; or
(5) when used by any person to prevent the escape, or to retake following the escape, of a
person lawfully held on a charge or conviction of a crime; or

The way I read this, it's reasonable for me to draw on a man who is half my age, twice my size, and is pummeling another person. Am I wrong in this interpretation?

 

[Nagant]

Well, whether a gun was drawn or not, it would have been nice for SOMEONE to do SOMETHING. These sheep were all milling around like idiots, sort of looking off into space, trying to act like nothing was happening. I didn't even see any attempt to call 911. I have to second the opinions of others on here when I say I was angered by the cowardice I saw. Of course I was also angered by the attitude and actions of this COW and her animalistic BF.

As for me... I definitely think this particular situation warranted drawing on this guy and at least trying to stop and hold him for cops or (preferably) scare him away (I wouldn't want to deal with having to keep him and his stupid woman at bay while waiting for PD)... I hate to get involved with other people's business, but 1, this easily could have been anyone in that place, as I'm sure more than one of them made a comment or at least gave this ugly cow a dirty look, and 2, I truly believe and would recognize were I in the place, that this poor guys life was definitely in danger. I could not go home and feel good about my own well being having witnessed this and not done anything about it. You know what they say about evil winning when good men do nothing.

The only other thought that would enter my mind would be the endless threads questioning the effectiveness of 9mm luger... and whether or not my puny 14 rounds of 9mil would have any effect on this rather large dude....

 

[Shortdog22]

Somebody behind the counter shoulda let the air out that MFer with a steak knife.

 

[Nagant]

shortdog, I concur. Instead they were too busy darkening their inseam and pacing back and forth like the the penned-up ewes they are. I just can't understand the attitude of these people... no inclination to help a fellow human being. I'm not someone who goes out of my way to find people in trouble so I can help them and feel good about it... but my gosh, if I see somebody who obviously needs some freakin' help, I'll do what I can.

 

[Pax Jordana]

As far as leaving, that lady looked fired up enough to chase me down in the parking lot. Although I'd question her cardiovascular fitness, I'd say the victim wouldn't have much edge in a dead sprint either. Besides, getting the snot kicked out of him while on tape worked out fine for the assailant.

Now as the victim, first off I'd keep my darn mouth shut and complain about it LATER. Assuming I did blurt something, I'd probably apologize profusely to all involved until I was sure there was no way out of it. If king kong made his entrance and I couldn't get by, I'd probably run out muzzle first at my earliest convenience.

 

[Jeff White]

Nobody is on the phone to 911 as soon as the woman goes off? That is the first thing you do is start the cavalry on the way.

The minute she heads out the door, block it, then get the manager or whoever to come over and lock it. Now you have the EDP and whatever backup she has on the parking lot...on the parking lot.

The best way to stay out of trouble is to avoid it. I'm sure after she spit in the manager's face he'd have been amenable to locking the door till the police arrived. In the meantime, you can keep 911 appraised of what the situation is on the parking lot. Then they know if they need to speed the response or if the subjects leave when they can't get back in. They also know if they try to break in.

Why fight at all when you don't have too? Why not just take some proactive action to avoid it altogether. There were certainly enough people there to hold the door shut while the manager got it locked. Chances are the EDPs would have cut themselves pretty badly breaking out the plate glass to get in.

Now I know that this solution isn't nearly as dramatic as shooting the big guy in a room full of people.

All that group would have needed was a leader, someone to stand up and say ; "Quick, somebody come help me hold the door while they lock it! The police are enroute, these people are trouble, they aren't coming back in!"

People stand around dumbfounded because nothing in their life experience has made them to believe they would ever face such a situation. All they need is leadership and many will step up to the plate.

Firearms, martial arts.....bah humbug! There were probably 10 phones in that place and at least one set of keys for the door. That's all that's required to deal with that situation.

Jeff

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

well since Im a LEO I would have jumped in and done my job. No man deserves to be beaten like that while others stand by and watch. I would have either announced my presence/authority or started wailing on the guy. Not a bone in my body would just allow me to walk away.

Would everyone who said they would leave do the same if it was an old lady? or a woman?

Any man who would simply walk away from another taking such a beating doesnt deserve to be called a man.

 

[willbrink]

"throw around by some guy twice my size with a 45 on me."

That is another conflict for a civi. You don't go hands on with some guys twice your size while armed and hope he does not find your gun and make the situation 10 X worse than it already is. A man that big and that violent is a deadly weapon and should be viewed as such.

 

[P95loser]

Well, if I was the victim I wouldn't have made the comment on my cell phone in the first place, and I definately wouldn't have kept on ignoring her if I did make a comment, and I MOST assuradely would not have thrown my cell phone down and had a hissy fit.

I would have probably just let her break and not said a thing, if people want to be buttholes, let them.

If I was a bystander and was there, I would have waited after the first punch to see the status of the fight. If the victim was cowered in a corner like he was and taking that kind of a beating, I would have drawn, presented, declared my presence and intent and, if necessary, taken out the threat.

 

[BrianB]

Could have been avoided by the phone guy.

1. Don't talk on cell phones about people nearby. They CAN hear you. It's like a toddler covering his eyes and claiming "I'm invisible!"
2. If you mess up, APOLOGIZE! I've never been assaulted by admitting when I was wrong.
3. If people cut to the counter, let them. Maybe she just had a quick question for the manager. Who knows?

...and yes, her boyfriend deserved the 4 years.

 

[C-D-P]

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

Everyone who stood there and did nothing traded liberty.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

...and yes, her boyfriend deserved the 4 years.

4 years or 4 rounds?

 

[DFW1911]

Doesn't this whole thing look a bit premeditated? It seems like she walked in specifically looking for trouble so she could call her boyfriend in to handle "the situation"....that she created.

It is pretty shocking that so many would stand by and not assist, but I wasn't there so I don't really know what I would do either.

Scary stuff.


Thanks for the post.
DFW1911

 

[Fred Fuller]

Folks,

Threads like this tend not to live long in S&T because they quickly get filled with useless invective, excess testosterone, overt bloody-mindedness etc. See above for an example.

Discussion of realistic strategies and tactics in specific what-if situations is on topic here. Random discharging of loaded keyboards without target identification and discrimination is not.

This range is now cold. Cease fire, cease fire, cease fire. All keyboards on the bench, actions open, and all hands clear.

lpl/nc