So you find yourself in a 10 x10 cage with an armed maniac and no way out...

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Flechette

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Sounds pretty ridiculous, right? Well it happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

So I was on business travel and got into town late. I found a motel that was open (the previous three were booked due to the convention). This one wasn't great and it was across town but I only needed a place to sleep until the next morning.

I go into the office...a 10 x10 room with a glass entry door and a glass door to the main lobby, which has a security slide so only people with motel keys could open that door. The clerk was in an office behind plexiglass that you could slide credit cards and identification under to get a room.

A maid comes in from the lobby to go outside. She is an about 5'0" Hispanic woman. At the same time a large, angry guy comes in from the other door to the outside. He is about 6'0", about ~50 years old, muscular with a crew cut. He has a 7" KBAR on his right hip and is madder than hell at the maid. I suspect he was an ex-Marine because of his appearance and the fact that he had hand-written "USMC" on the knife sheath. He had a light jacket and it was possible he had a firearm as well as the knife.

He was screaming something about a camera, accusing the maid of stealing it. He kept saying that it was a $5,000 camera and was very upset. His face was reddened. The maid denied knowing about it and backed into the security door. The guy was in front of the entrance door to the outside world, effectively blocking the only way to escape. I was at the counter. The room was quite literally 10 x 10. I am not making this up. Two guys could not have laid down head to foot in that room.

I nodded at the clerk behind the glass and she read my mind, calling the police. I turned sideways with my right side to the clerk's counter and quietly unsnapped my holster on a Sig P230...a 380 ACP pistol that I carry everywhere. I suddenly wished I had opted to carry my .357 that morning.

The angry man kept accusing the maid of stealing the camera and she just kept repeating "No. No". I could tell that it was frustrating him. So I said something. I said a simple "What's up?" and he promptly said, "Shut the f up". I did not want to escalate the situation but I thought a simple statement reminding him that he was not alone might delay any violent reaction. I know that it could also have caused him to lose control. It was a calculated guess to buy time.

I made the decision that if he drew the knife I would shoot. I would not be able to use the sights at all since due to the close quarters extending the gun to arms length would be inviting him to take it. A hip shot isn't known for accuracy so I was worried that I could not down him with one shot of 380 ACP. He was so close that if he survived for more than a few seconds he would be able to stick that KBAR right through me. The Sig did have a grip laser which would have helped.

He kept yelling at the maid, the maid kept saying "no" and I just kept looking at him. Eventually he turned around and shoved the exit door (smacked it) open and left. The maid quickly turned around and swiped her card to open the security door and left. I turned around and the clerk was gone. I was alone in my cage.

The clerk eventually came back and gave me a card. I hung out in the lobby on the other side of the security door until the police arrived and then went to my room.

Later on that evening the clerk called me (she knew my room number, of course) to tell me that the cops found the guy's camera in the guy's car. She also thanked me for hanging around in the lobby.

So everything turned out ok but it still bothers me. I don't normally walk into a 10 x10 cage with no way out, especially at night on the wrong side of town. In that regard, I feel like an idiot. On the other hand, how was I supposed to get a room if I didn't go in to see the clerk?

I carry the Sig .380 religiously under the theory that carrying a gun that is carryable is better than a large unwieldily gun that stays in your safe. However, given the situation of that night I wonder if this is a good theory. I know that all handguns are fairly ineffective weapons in the regard of immediately dropping someone; that would most likely take a rifle. But I don't think that many people would be walking around with a rifle all day long. That would be awkward to say the least.

So what are your thoughts? What did I do right/wrong? That night could have easily gone sideways and I keep thinking about how I could of handled it better.

BTW, I am getting sick of business trips.
 
my dad made me learn to shoot with no sights growing up, no need to aim i the targets within 5 yards. some will say that you won;t hit anything, but i am very accurate doing so. 5 or 7 yards its easy to stay in a 6'' circle. do some instinctive shooting practise, just look at your target pull up and shoot. this is the only way to shoot if you in tight spots, the time it takes to aim is to long, just shoot instinctively. saying whats up is about the worst thing to say when someone is going off like that.
 
You did great and don’t let any of this jury forum tell you different; you got to go to bed without getting hurt, shooting another person or going to jail. It was another life’s experience and no more - learn from it but do not second guess yourself - you lived to fight another day and eat a nice breakfast in the morning.
 
^^^

And practice with that P230. Practice shots from the hip, from the waist, from chest high and close to your body and also the normal combat extension. Practice weak hand as well as strong hand. Practice moving forward and moving backwards and if at a range that allows it, from side to side.
 
You did as best as one could. No one got hurt. I call that a win.

Would a bigger gun have been more comforting? Of course. In that moment I would rather be talking into a can with a guy on the other end taking coordinates for a howitzer strike. You had the .380 on you. If you're anything like me, anything bigger and you might not have it when you need it. I long ago made peace with the fact that I may get my ticket punched "only" carrying a .380, but that chance is probably pretty slim to not carrying anything at all.

Scary situation you were in. I'm not envious.
 
I hate being caged. When I delivered pizzas, I found many houses have those ridiculous 5x5-ish screened "booths" you stand in when you approach the door, having passed through a screen door first. I would always use the slide stop on the door's piston to hold it open, though not all of them worked. Some customers didn't like that, since it invited their little yapsalot dogs to escape, and I did tell a few "Sorry, but I just don't like being caged." No one gave me any grief beyond that, and I never lost any of their pets.
 
It sounds like you handled it about as well as it could have been handled. I agree that the pistol you have with you is much better than the bigger more powerful one that is not with you. Are your business trips planed enough in advance that you can call ahead and make reservations? Just trying to think of a way to avoid the seedier parts of town.
 
Personally I think you did alright.

Probably should've said something else though. That particular guy is quite possibly normally fairly law abiding, he's just angry and not thinking momentarily because his blood was up over the "theft" of the camera. Get him to think and maybe he'll control himself and you wouldn't have to think about punching holes in him, you won't get any in yourself and you won't have to deal with the subsequent legal ramifications that go along with that.

Maybe something along the lines on "Maybe you should call the police" (but said in such a way with your voice inflected where he thinks that you're somewhat on his side and view the maid as a potential thief. This also introduces the police into the picture and gets him to view possibly assaulting her as a bad idea because the police will end up being called) or "This is going to go bad" (it's a warning in a couple different ways. I used that one in a slightly similar circumstance and the guy realized that it was going to be three on one and that I was probably armed and he left them and me alone).

I also didn't see any mention made of pepper spray. Not that you're going to use it on a knife weilder in uber close proximity to you inside a small room (which would essentially be suicide), but not every threat will be under that particular set of circumstances.

Are you still going to carry the .380? Or are you looking at a small subcompact 9mm, .40 or .45?

Looking at doing some training or drills in close quarters?
 
I turned sideways with my right side to the clerk's counter and quietly unsnapped my holster on a Sig P230...a 380 ACP pistol that I carry everywhere. I suddenly wished I had opted to carry my .357 that morning.

A small caliber gun is comfortable but usually is not very comforting when standing face-to-face to a attacker in a crisis.

I carry the Sig .380 religiously under the theory that carrying a gun that is carryable is better than a large unwieldily gun that stays in your safe. However, given the situation of that night I wonder if this is a good theory.

I have previously posted why I carry a Beretta 92FS. Small calibers may work eventually if the shots are carefully placed. The individual you are describing had a 3' arm reach, his body was 2' wide and with the large knife easily controlled 6' of the room around him. That left you with 4' of space. Not enough space to bring your gun up to your shoulder. Most likely you would have to start shooting as soon as you drew your gun with the hope of hitting a vital area and shutting him down. Simple math is the more shots I fire the better my chances of hitting vital areas.

I have yet to talk to someone or read where the person said after being forced to use their pistol in self-defense "I sure am glad I didn't use a more powerful gun." It is of small comfort to your wife and family if your attacker dies 30 minutes later than you do in the hospital emergency room.

Life is full of compromises but it really doesn't take that much more effort to carry a larger serious fighting gun.
 
You did good, glad it worked out. The confined space deal is bad news no matter what caliber you are carrying. A baseball bat may have been better than a small caliber pistol for putting the guy down. That situation is a lot like a bear attack. It's not whether you can kill the attacker but what he does to you before he dies.
 
I find the P238 to be "just enough" gun for me 99% of the time, and far better than a Magnum left at home.

Strangely, the only time I had to seriously consider pulling the trigger on someone, I did happen to be toting a 3" M60 .357 and even then I found myself stressed on if it would put him down before he could cut me!

So, glad it turned out OK, but as far as feeling confident in the moment with your carry choice when presented with actually shooting someone- I think your gonna be freaked no matter what.
 
Good outcome, no criticism from here.

I might have said, "Excuse me sir, I need to leave" while sidling towards the door. Maybe he would have moved. If not, the situation probably would not have escalated any worse than it already had.
 
The best thing you can do is know what’s happening and know what you’re going to do next. You did that. And at least you said something to the guy without running your mouth worse than he was. Most people just cower or ratchet up the phony tough guy talk.

The problem with many in the world is they’re so self-centered they don’t know (or care) they’re physically blocking you and they don’t actually realize (or care) how disrespectful they are being. Not saying anyone should go all vigilante over harsh words, but I’m convinced politeness is deteriorating because there’re no immediate physical repercussions for vile behavior.

Aside from simply not being there, you did as well as you could. We (who aren’t overly wealthy) all operate in less than ideal circumstances and in proximity to some undesirable “people” we’d rather not.
 
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I think you did fine. No one got hurt and the situation deescalated. In that room, if he had pulled the knife, you were probably going to get cut. Action beat reaction.
According to a lot of studies the range you were at is typical for a self defense shooting, especially for a civilian
Not sure a 357 would have made that much of a difference. It is not that great in a short barreled gun
You would have been better off with a Sig 365 and 10 or 12 shots. It hides just as well as any other gun
9mm doesn't lose much in a shorter barrel
 
I still think the .380 on you makes the most amount of sense given what you do.

It's easy to mentally escalate the size/power of a gun. "Well, if I can carry a .380, then a single stack 9mm is almost as easy to hide. Well, the single stack 9mm isnt too bad to dress around, maybe a Glock 26 is better. Well heck, the 26 isnt that big of a chore if I wear bigger pants and an untucked tee shirt, maybe a 19 makes more sense?"...etc.

At some point you have to know what is your Popeye Threshold and carry what works for you. I have hundreds of dollars in quality belts and holsters. I never found anything that works well enough for me to strap on every day. Also, a recent lower back injury is most likely going to be a management thing instead of a recovery thing. I'm not able to lug a 2-3lb gun around all day without my back screaming at night.

Furthermore, my summer work attire is a fitted tucked in polo with clean fitted jeans and work boots. I'm a contractor who handles sales. The largest thing I can carry is a .380 in my pocket. No small 9mm will make the cut. I've tried.

I'm sure in that situation I would want a full size 9mm with 6 magazines on me. However, you pays your moneys and you takes your chances. Sometimes I'm just going to have to be OK with being a lightly armed athletically built guy who talks for a living and doesnt look like he had anything worth taking by force. My trigger finger isn't my only option. For some it may be, but so far (knock on wood), I've gotten by on my meager talents of not looking worth the effort or defusing the situation with polite circular silver tongue salesmanship.
 
I suddenly wished I had opted to carry my ...

I always carry that service sized gun. Since I can't see the future, I don't have the information available to conclude a lesser weapon would suffice.

Of course, there are situations where change makes sense, when information is available. Like, for example, heading to the woods or to huggy family affairs. Otherwise, I'm suggesting, carry the best performing gun you can handle most all the time.

Just saying, we all should think about conversations with ourselves that go like "I'm going to the _____, so I'm carrying my _____. But if I'm going to _____, I'm carrying my _____.
 
The elephant in the room here is the possibility of CQC with a firearm.

In regards to weapon of choice I think the OP might have come to a realization. I carry a G26 with 12rd mag and I feel confident in my and the guns capabilities. But I've never been in a situation where I might actually have to use it. I suspect what the OP felt is what many might feel if actually confronted, whether they were carrying a LCP or fullsize 1911.

In regards to tactics I think this is a great example of why practicing point or hip shooting is so important. In the distances the OP details there's no way you're getting full extension and aligned sights. Being able to use your firearm at a little more than arms length is not only worthwhile but a real possibility.


That being said I think the OP handled himself well and am glad things went the way they did.
 
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