Some ideas about taking control of gun control

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RX-79G

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I think we are losing. Not only are gun owners in the minority, but we have (foolishly) refused to be part of process or of representing ourselves as much better than demanding children or worse, crackpots.

People in sales practice an "elevator speech" - a 30 second statement that markets your "brand". When it comes to gun people speaking to non-gun people, we have no elevator speech - there has not been an effective, thought provoking statement that gun people can use to make their POV attractive.


Anyway, the first thing I would suggest is that there needs to be media depictions of self defense that are neither preachy, action flicks or about vigilantism. And they have to be of high enough quality to be indistinguishable from a film not backed by lobby.

Two films I would suggest thinking about are "Thank you for Smoking" and the various "Left Behind" films. Thank you for Smoking does a fantastic job of making the people trying to control everything look ridiculous and successfully paints smoking as a personal choice that is no one else's business.

The Left Behind franchise takes a very evangelical Christian topic and turns it into an adventure/thriller. The content isn't as important as the fact that this is essentially a special interest "lobby" getting their message out in the form of a regular movie release.

I think a drama about the negative impact of a successful self defense would bring a great deal of sympathy to firearms ownership as an embattled but "necessary evil".
 
I think we are losing because the media is always against us. They won't give any rebuttal time.
Sort of like Joseph Goebells (the propaganda minister) of the Third Reich. He who controls the radio controls the mind. All others go to a concentration camp.

Very soon the million man march will go to Washington D.C. and corrupt traffic for a week in protest to Hillary's edicts and there will be actually more than a million men and women there to protest.

That is the only way we can be heard among the propagandists.
 
Wait, so elevator speech or feature-length documentary/dramatization?

We have the elevator speech down-pat; that's the 'bumper sticker commentary' you likely denigrate ("it's not about controlling guns, but people," "guns don't kill people, people do," "not one more useless restriction that has nothing to do with your dead kid," "you people have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and think you can draft effective gun or crime control"). The reason the curt discussion has grown increasingly curt, and increasingly blunt, is because the type of "seat at the table negotiations for our mutual best interest" you seek has already been tried. There is, plainly, no 'mutual interest' to be found.

Look up the NRA representative present during the 1934 National Firearms Act hearings. They were there to play ball, to draft up the best law they could using their experience, and ensure that it only impacted concealable weapons and those associated with gangsters in the mass media, but not ordinary sportsmen going about their hunts. And that's what they did. And it wasn't enough. And it impacted sportsmen & hunters regardless. And they were back to demanding more restrictions and burdens on gun owners almost immediately, until it reached crescendo once again in 1968 after a wave of high profile (again, mass media) assassinations and serial killers. This time even bolt action rifles were deemed too dangerous to be made freely available.

It really wasn't until the 80's when the ATF began unilaterally lopping off entire classes of erstwhile legal firearms (open bolt semi-autos, high capacity shotguns) through pure regulation, and large urban swaths of the US were rapidly approaching blanket bans on ALL firearms possession, that the NRA membership finally reached their limit, and began quickly replacing the old play-ball negotiators with firebrands who would refuse to tolerate further restriction.

And then we started winning. At the local/state level, then to some extent at the federal level. To the point that when gun control peaked again in 1994 and the AWB was narrowly rammed through over intense opposition, the victory was more Pyrrhic than the 'victory' at Heraclea that spawned the term, and "gun control" has been largely banished to its large, urban refuges (slowly growing & expanding, but not wholesale dominating)

Hillary is clearly trying to build toward a peak once more, either out of belief (or regret it was not to be after Newtown) or the notion it is a winning issue this election because the other big Democrat issues have been settled for now. Gun rights has been winning big almost everywhere it wasn't already losing, and has made huge inroads in previously hostile terrain like Detroit. The only question is whether those losing areas out-represent the winning ones as we approach this next crescendo of anti-gun fervor.

Fervor that I must believe is entirely fabricated, since every single last peak of gun control in the past was directly the result of real, terrible calamity, which is frankly not present for this new crusade. Newtown was awful, and motivated a lot of gun control, but the fact is it wasn't numerous similar attacks in quick succession, or sustained for years, like the gangland crime & poverty of Depression/Prohibition Era 1930's, like the civil unrest & violence of the 1960's, or like the historic and uncontrollable crime & drug use rates of the 1980's-90's. Even the cause du jour --police brutality-- is not at historically significant levels, nor the crime rate, nor the economic 'privation' suffered by poorer Americans. There is no fuel for the fire, just a lot of heat and air being blown onto a dying ember.

Now of course, Hillary claims to represent a huge volume of fuel for the fire, and to the extent that she can direct her billionaires and sycophants to delay all their other causes to focus on this one, she does. There's also her ability to foment crises like those from the past. But even then the conditions simply are not the same as they were in the past when we've suffered crushing defeats, and her/their effectiveness outside already-friendly territory is the weakest it's ever been. This isn't a motivated gun control movement against a blind, deaf, and dumb group of unaffiliated American gun owners. The NRA is positively huge compared to its historic standing, local groups even more so compared to their historic importance. Even if we believe the lies about the number of gun owners remaining constant, they have almost unanimously endorsed every kind of firearm accessible, especially those shunned by previous generations as scary or unnecessary. The presence of NFA items in the gun owning set is the highest it's ever been, there are multiple belt-fed semi-autos out there, more people than ever build their own firearms.

The notion a single president will (or even can) reverse this kind of momentum and strategic standing in an instant to render us all silent and helpless is disrespectful and ignorant. At best, our progress could be halted for a time, and reversed with sustained opposition (and if you look at the mere ages of the key players Bloomberg, Soros, Clintons, Feinstein, Schumer, there's a lot of work to be done if the next-gen gun banners are to be in any way effective; contrast with all the primary political personalities making the case for the RKBA and it's almost shocking)

I think a drama about the negative impact of a successful self defense would bring a great deal of sympathy to firearms ownership as an embattled but "necessary evil".
It's been done before, and on anti-gun outlets, no less. Heck, you'd be surprised how often the theme appears in shows from Japan, of all places*. Firearms ownership is not an 'evil,' necessary or otherwise. The need to use them is, and that need is not even the killer's in a justified shooting, but the aggressor's. Countless westerns depict the exact scenario you describe**, and the knee-jerk reaction of an 'unformed' opinion is to wish the whole scenario away by banning guns from existence.

It's stupid, but that's where the belief comes from. No one wants to see people die, so they wish away the tools they saw used to do it. The realization simply does not appear naturally anymore, in a society so devoid of strife and desperation, that we have a duty and right to defend ourselves and others by any means necessary. When you've never felt fear, or pain, you don't know to avoid dangerous behaviors like gun control.

To use the crude vernacular, "real talk" is actually most effective for emotionally uncomfortable truths, like the need and justification for self defense, the consequences of inhibiting access to means of self defense, and communicating our refusal to tolerate further restrictions.

Our position is to refuse to tolerate further restrictions...right? ;)

TCB

*Trigun, despite being a really goofy low-rent show, actually has one of the more complex takes on the subject I've seen; simultaneously emphasizing the
fundamental duty to protect all life, and the fundamental impossibility of always being able to do so, despite dedication, sacrifice, or mercy (and the apparent contradiction subtly resolved through redemption). It also repeatedly, and at length, shows firearms to be the most effective tools available for humans to make these important moral judgments, and warrant the utmost respect and restraint accordingly.
**The OK Corral shooting, even as depicted in Tombstone, is ironically cited as evidence for the need for gun control, even though the shootout occurred when 'lawmen' tried to enforce a wildly illegal blanket gun ban enacted by the city targeted specifically (also illegal) at their targets. Yet anti-gunners and even 'undecided' people will frequently claim that *gun control* is what separates we modern folk from those *lawless* times.
 
Your post is illustrative of the problem:

1. You believe that anyone you could have a discussion with has already made up their mind, and is against you. Plenty of Americans absolutely do not have firm beliefs either way about firearms.

2. Your arguments are all defensive, and therefore weak:
"it's not about controlling guns, but people," "guns don't kill people, people do," "not one more useless restriction that has nothing to do with your dead kid," "you people have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and think you can draft effective gun or crime control"
Pretend you are trying to sell something to someone who doesn't have an opinion. What did you just tell them that they would have any interest in buying? All you did was tell them about YOUR problems. You completely failed to state why it is also their problem, or how they benefit.

No one is interested in solving your problem. And you are a minority that no one feels sorry for.
 
Some folks a few years back were doing a pro-gun documentary. I personally can form my own opinions and chafe at others twisting my arm to their point of view, so I haven't seen much of it, but it was one of the better recent efforts that wasn't a formal NRA publication;
Assaulted: Civil Rights Under Fire
Even then, I recall them having some message creep that diluted their argument

Summary of the mountain we face in putting together pithy arguments;

Us:
-Gun rights are important to protect serious gun uses
-Serious gun use is not glamorous, or pretty, or fulfiling
-Documentaries operate by representing their desired cause or outcome as glamorous, pretty, or fulfilling.
-Arguments for gun rights are negatively impacted by any attempt to whitewash their purpose, minimize their consequences (positive or negative), or fail to follow them to their logical conclusion (machineguns)
-The practical reality of firearms is both positive and negative, but viewers are far more receptive to the negative when it concerns personal danger/risk

Them:
-The world is actually safe; you don't need to protect yourself
-Other good people can deflect bad people for you
-Dangerous items can only hurt people
-Hurting other people makes you feel bad, only bad people do so
-No one should ever hurt anyone else, only bad people do so
-Normal people can't be trusted with deadly force, only bad people want it
-People commanding deadly force can't be trusted, good people pose no threat

It really is mature nuance vs. contradictory childrens' fairy tales. Not even getting into those choosing to pursue gun control for ulterior motives, but the true believers that gun rights are incompatible with decent society (there is some overlap with those who see subservient helpless proles before an almighty State as 'decent')

It's a complex issue, because it is fundamental to the complexity of the human condition, and therefore cannot be explained, let alone effectively made into persuasion, in such a short time as the simplified & distorted childrens' fables of the opposition. We don't have intuitive cause & effect, or instinctive emotional response on our side. We have cruel fate, and cold reality, and frankly, a large portion of the population invested heavily in denying both (how else do you make it well past adulthood without forming a real opinion on the topic?)

TCB
 
Who is the fool that thought a documentary would do anything? Did you start sending money to the Brady campaign after seeing Bowling for Columbine?


Nope. You didn't even watch it.


You aren't going to change minds through intellectual debate. The reason I suggested a dramatic film is because you can sell something that doesn't look like you're selling it. Essentially, product placement.

There has been no move to build empathy with gun ownership. Not sympathy, not fear, not logic. Walking in someone's shoes. Well done drama is very good for that.
 
1. You believe that anyone you could have a discussion with has already made up their mind, and is against you. Plenty of Americans absolutely do not have firm beliefs either way about firearms.

Partially incorrect; they are either against me intentionally, or unintentionally. I no longer believe it is at all common for people to naturally arrive at a pro-gun position out of instinct/emotion alone; only experience and a lot of thought gets them there. I say this as someone who was once ambivalent (apart from the mechanics of guns, which always interested me) and favored what I now recognize as highly radical and useless gun control. I believed that all 9mm pistols (specifically) should be banned, since they featured so prominently in crime statistics. A very, very contradictory conclusion to arrive at, but that's what happens when you don't think about such a complex issue very much.

9mms are the the recurring feature (actually it's the unmentioned criminals & gang bangers; fail number one), so ban all the 9mms (logistically impossible; fail number two), and the killings should decrease (zero impact on the innumerable alternate means available now & in the future; failure number three). Not one aspect of my 'solution' made any sense under even mild scrutiny, but that's what my logical brain conjured up on the fly when it pondered the issue of gun violence in high school (give you three guesses why the issue came up in class :rolleyes:). Heck, I even felt proud at being so 'logical' as to focus on the actual problem, and not on the even more hated 'assault weapons' like many of my classmates, since they were clearly more a non-issue than anything.

The reasons why my mind, and I have to assume countless others, followed this line of reasoning were twofold;
1) The purpose of gun control is to reduce violent crime
2) The weapon statistic I saw heavily favored 9mm pistols at the time

A flawed premise, and very limited if not outright fabricated dataset. But it made sense to be based on those inputs, seemed 'reasonable,' and therefore I thought no more about it for a good five years. It wasn't until shortly after college that I decided I should know how to shoot a rifle (hadn't since a 22LR in the Scouts) as just "one of those things a man should know," that I by necessity began learning more about firearms.

I learned that there were a billion different kinds of rifle, and by extension, handgun (wasn't looking at handguns yet). Little 22s, 25s, 32s and 380s are extremely common as weapons, to say nothing of even more powerful handguns, or those predating common 9mm options, and all were frequent in crimes if perhaps not as dominant as 9mm. I quickly realized my 'quick fix' ban solution would accomplish nothing; I broadened it to all similar concealable handguns in poor areas (basically the primary but abandoned goal of the 34 NFA)

Then --again, shopping for a rifle, here-- I began to learn bits and pieces about the 94 AWB. I wanted a bolt rifle, and actually shunned semi-autos as unnecessary to my target-shooting goals, but I still heard references to the kinds of stupidity in that law. I chalked it up to ignorance by non-gun people with good intentions. After having a great time with my 700SPS in 308, and even dabbling in reloading, I sought a revolver and a semi-auto 308. Began learning *lots* about the AWB at this point, since I wanted an FNAR that would have been unthinkable during those dark days.

It was around this time that I came to the realization the stupidity and failure of the AWB was not due to well-intentioned ignorance, but bald-faced arrogance. No idiot thinks a bayonet lug makes a gun more dangerous, no idiot thinks a barrel shroud makes a machine gun. The law was simply a political group punishing another as much as it could while the vote tally was in its favor. The real goal was to ban or restrict many of the most popular weapons being made, evidenced by the toleration of functionally-identical alternatives that were obviously less preferred by buyers to the banned ones.

This is when I think my opinion on gun control went from "I don't really care, think the laws aren't very well thought out, but aren't really an issue for what I want to do, so whatever" --what I call 'unintentionally anti-gun'-- to "these gun control people don't really care at all about crime, or violence, or especially guns; they just want to stick it to law-abiding gun owners" --what I call 'intentionally pro-gun' as opposes to 'intentionally anti-gun' if I'd decided to join the Brady Coalition & start marching for an AWB.

I was definitely open to new information, and if clearly articulated, new opinions on the matter before I came to my final realization, but I was definitely anti-gun. People with the good fortune to be raised around guns are more aware of the real nature of the items (all equally dangerous for the most part) and the people & uses (good & bad, safe & beneficial if rules & responsibility are followed), and potentially even the laws governing them. These people have the dataset to readily see through the lies of the anti-gunners' "anti-crime" claims and stop giving them the benefit of the doubt as I did. But a great many Americans don't have this experience, many don't even have the 22LR/archery experience from Scouting that I did, and you simply can't expect them to arrive at such an unintuitive answer as "guns are only as scary as the people holding them, and the people saying they are scary are not only wrong but lying to me."

2. Your arguments are all defensive, and therefore weak:
This point will be much shorter. First of all, the quotes I gave are the intentionally abrasive bumper sticker lines used to address (ideally to shut down) unproductive conversation with hostile true believers. Sometimes discourse simply needs to end, and they are definitely useful for rallying the like-minded, which is also part of promoting our message.

To your second point about trying to make our arguments more 'empathetic;' trying to forcibly put a pro-gun argument on someone else usually ends up offending them because its ugly when guns are needed. How do they benefit from gun carry rights? They get to fight back (no guarantee of winning, mind you) against a group of hoods who want to cave in their skull with a tire iron & rape their wife. Oh, now you're offended? You think because I said this and evoked a fear response I'm somehow a threat to you? Didn't you know this exact incident happened just last week on the far side of town? Oh, now you're upset that this 'theoretical' debate about tangible objects & physical violence isn't entirely 'theoretical' anymore and want to change the subject?

Ironically enough, the Socratic method of responding to their mushy anti-gun beliefs by poking holes in it with leading questions is less confrontational than presenting your own opinion. If they don't want to think about rapists or real local crimes, they can more easily direct the inquiry away from those uneasy topics. Also, by gradually/incrementally illuminating flaws in their thinking (see again my evolution on the issue above) it forces them to willingly --eagerly-- try to patch the holes themselves, to no avail in short order. People with experience having their beliefs challenged will respond by altering their views to resolve contradiction, people unable to form their own beliefs (or who have never been wrong :rolleyes:) will respond to the dissonance with frustration and anger, often intentionally doubling down on positions they acknowledge are conflicting.

TCB
 
You're completely missing it. You keep talking about arguments. This isn't about arguing or convincing, it is about making something that is alien become familiar.


I also completely disagree that your experience as an Anti is typical or normal. I was never anti-gun, despite not having grown up with any guns or anti-gun stuff in my life. I have taken a lot of new people to the range from all walks of life - including many college students. Most of them had no strong opinion about guns at all, aside from a healthy caution.


Most Americans don't get it, either way. They don't have violence in their neighborhoods - most have never heard a gunshot. But they also don't think it is any more important than owning motorcycles and hot tubs. AND, they don't want or need to be lectured to about guns, motorcycles or hot tubs.


So you, and many gun people, feel you at war with people that don't even realize you exist. And when you make your misplaced anger known, they just screen you out.
 
The reason I suggested a dramatic film is because you can sell something that doesn't look like you're selling it. Essentially, product placement.
Or rather, propaganda (just being honest, here). I'll put it this way; the Everytown goons put out a "high production value" ad months back about a woman being attacked by dude with a gun (little hazy on the details here), and while logically it was in fact a condemnation of the notion she (and/or he) should be disarmed in the altercation, Everytown clearly ran with this ad because it got the desired revulsion at the sight of the gun from the focus groups of accessible viewers (as opposed to gun nuts). When the 'undecideds' react to an objective portrayal of a one-sided fight a woman has no hope of winning without a gun by saying it would be better if the attacker had no gun --I'm just not sure how you overcome that. Like I said, the need for guns in society is not intuitive to people who haven't been taught it, or have never been scared & alone (even as a child, I'd camped enough to know the desire for something more than my fists when something when bump in the night outside the thin nylon walls)

So let's storyboard this out here before I hit the sack;
-Woman walking down a street at night, let's say leaving the office or something. Probably make it look non-threatening as possible so people in the happy burbs won't see it as foreign
-Accosted on the way to the car/bus stop by a sketchy dude asking for money or something (already losing part of your audience here, since they haven't been so threatened and therefore believe they never will be, and think the sketch is hyperbole)
-Fight escalates to the point of physical violence (losing more of your audience that has never been in a fight, and therefore think they can talk their way out of this scenario or something stupid like that, maybe even think the woman is escalating it)
-If the goon has a gun, the audience will focus on denying him his weapon to prevent the attack: fail. For the proper message to be delivered, it must be conveyed she has no alternative but to shoot the man and also desperately wishes not to. Normal human emotions, but somehow in cinema they will not be assumed when a person pulls out a weapon, especially if it is more powerful than the opponent (which is must be her, for the woman to realistically triumph). And we also don't have time to properly characterize the woman as caring/responsible/goodly ahead of time to properly prepare the viewer. So her motivation must be spelled out as the fight unfolds (result is a necessarily unrealistic choreography)
-So we have to make her appear brave/resolute/prepared enough to waste the attacker, yet clearly reluctant to do so, in the space of a few seconds. Probably a scared-face & corny "don't make me shoot" line are the only way to do this without making her appear the aggressor.
-Then we have to establish she has no alternative but to fight back with the gun or die, most readily established by sustaining an injury (which partially defeats the oversimplified perception that guns protect from harm, damaging the argument). Already badly unrealistic since an injured shooter is unlikely to fight back convincingly or even retain control of their weapon (a common counter argument)
-So lets say she was served a facial injury (because the camera is focused there) and thrown to the ground, and now presents a firearm as the attacker presents a knife. At this point, the gun is likely to be perceived negatively, if only as a the latest in a parade of bad-to-worse in the scenario. A lot of viewers reluctant to imagine themselves in the situation will subconsciously "mark" every identifiable threat before them, from the gun to the man to the sidewalk, as 'things to be avoided' to escape the need to confront their own course of action in such a scenario.
-Now we've got a big, loud, boom-flash. Emotional people (not operating on logic here, yet) just love to associate loud, scary noises with things they want nothing to do with, be it guns or surprise parties. The chick just used the nuclear option on a guy with 'just a knife' to boot, and didn't even shoot to wound. What a monster.

My point with all this is that you can't realistically depict the motives and justification for a defensive shooting in a ten second bit. When real people shoot real people who deserve every bit of what they got, they are still torn up inside resolving these things for weeks, months, or even years afterward. It's an unavoidably traumatic event, that no one wants to imagine let alone experience for themselves. And all you get for your 'good shoot' is to keep on living, and experience this. No one wants to emotionally involve themselves in such a painful line of thought, so many will invent rationales to avoid it (I won't ever be in such a situation if there weren't guns; if I don't fight back, there would be no need for violence; it won't happen to me, etc.). The people who do imagine these dark things are those who have come to realize --logically or through experience-- that they must be addressed ahead of time in some fashion for survival.

You may catch more flies with honey, but apart from practical shooting competitions, there simply isn't much honey to be had in defensive handgun theory (and a whole lot of vinegar). How do you positively 'spin' the idea you should explain the concept of death to your child today, rather than "tomorrow?" It's guaranteed to be unpleasant, even though it is necessary and healthy.


TCB
 
I also completely disagree that your experience as an Anti is typical or normal. I was never anti-gun, despite not having grown up with any guns or anti-gun stuff in my life. I have taken a lot of new people to the range from all walks of life - including many college students. Most of them had no strong opinion about guns at all, aside from a healthy caution.

Really. No opinion on constitutional carry, open/concealed, cocked & locked vs. empty chamber, guns in bad neighborhoods, universal background checks, assault weapons, machine guns, sniper rifles, fifty cals, tactical shotguns, laser sights, terminal performance of 9mm vs 45acp, cop killer bullets, or the benefits of a high ballistic coefficient projectile, huh? ATF overreach, conflicting language in the NFA & GCA, arbitrary import restrictions, and the treacherous path to build a firearm in accordance with the law? The real vs. imagined purpose of the RKBA, the validity of the 'militia' or 'collective' right theory? What did you actually ask them, 'should guns be banned?'

Just blank slates, who would certainly not have formed even weak opinions based on the scraps of distorted information they are fed daily by mass media, like I had. Are you sure they weren't simply being polite and downplaying their opinions (of whatever strength) so as to not offend you as your guests at the range? Absent any experience, that 'healthy caution' is a mild aversion based on very little, and is how assault weapons and machine guns got banned. A range trip is undoubtedly the best cure, but you aren't talking about strategies for getting people into the ranges, but of reaching them in theaters/living rooms.

TCB
 
I was talking about a 2 hour film, not a 10 second bit. The film would be an entertaining drama that includes a legal and social struggle after a self defense shooting. The point would be to humanize someone who reluctantly used violence by showing how people treated them afterwards.

You're talking about the story as being primarily about why the shooting happened, which is the wrong way to approach it. That's an action film, or thriller. Those genres are fantasy to people.


The Grisham film "A Time to Kill" is about the aftermath of a vigilante murder, not about the killing itself. The defendant isn't humanized by what he did, but by what comes out in his trial.
 
Really. No opinion on constitutional carry, open/concealed, cocked & locked vs. empty chamber, guns in bad neighborhoods, universal background checks, assault weapons, machine guns, sniper rifles, fifty cals, tactical shotguns, laser sights, terminal performance of 9mm vs 45acp, cop killer bullets, or the benefits of a high ballistic coefficient projectile, huh? ATF overreach, conflicting language in the NFA & GCA, arbitrary import restrictions, and the treacherous path to build a firearm in accordance with the law? The real vs. imagined purpose of the RKBA, the validity of the 'militia' or 'collective' right theory? What did you actually ask them, 'should guns be banned?'

Just blank slates, who would certainly not have formed even weak opinions based on the scraps of distorted information they are fed daily by mass media, like I had. Are you sure they weren't simply being polite and downplaying their opinions (of whatever strength) so as to not offend you as your guests at the range? Absent any experience, that 'healthy caution' is a mild aversion based on very little, and is how assault weapons and machine guns got banned. A range trip is undoubtedly the best cure, but you aren't talking about strategies for getting people into the ranges, but of reaching them in theaters/living rooms.

TCB
I wouldn't say blank slates, but not having any skin in the game (and being reasonably thoughtful people) they hadn't made any decisions or formed strong opinions. It was not a part of their lives. The news is full of awful stuff, but we are used to hearing about war, famine, drive bys, etc. It isn't "real" until you decide it deserves your attention.

Try going up to someone and having a serious conversation about the honey bee epidemic and what happens when pollinating insects die off. People have heard about the hive deaths, they know what bees do - think you'll get a bunch of strong opinions, or mostly blank stares?

The only people really taking sides are those who have a vested interest in forming very strong opinions. Everybody else isn't really thinking about it.
 
All sorts of problems with the base premise.

The recent hugely-popular HBO series "The Night Of" examined many complicated and controversial topics--but the only way to know if anyone's opinion was swayed by that depiction would be by speculation.

There's alos a problem that films are visual. Court proceedings are largely dry and procedural--real courtrooms make for very droll drama, as k anyone who has sat on a jury.

Then, there's the issue of self-defense shootings resulting in prosecution. Criminal prosecution is going to hinge on either shady or other non-legitimate use, or by way of a politically-motivated prosecutor. Civil proceedingc will be as dry, dramatically, as actuarial tables.

Let's imagine a film about Williams-Zimmerman--it would have to be a flim noir , as, from either perspective, you are starting with an antihero, at least for dramatic purposes. You'd also have a problem of finding a producer willing the alienating half of the potential viewers, either before buying a ticket, or after.

You'd probably have better luck restarting the Death Wish franchise. (Which would wind up as realistic as Bourne or Taken.)

But, the real problem here is that your presumption that "we" can "convert" the fence sitters without their knowing it simply by pumping popular entertainment at them.

That premise is as unlikely as the opposite one--which has been tried in popular entertainment for at least the last four decades to no great change in public opinion. (Although, it could be argued that such obvious manipulation has caused viewership loss to other media--we have more choices now, and exercise them.)
 
As court and police procedurals are some of the most loved categories of TV and film, I disagree.


And this isn't so much about being sneaky, it is about providing a sympathetic character and story that is realistic and similar to the lives of the target viewers so they can mentally put themselves in those shoes.

Death Wish, and all other types of vigilante, police or other action/thriller genres do not create empathy that translates into real life. Films about real life happenings, do.

This would need to be fiction. George Zimmerman is not sympathetic, and depicting a child murderer getting off would hardly be a story we would want to put out.

The Jody Foster film The Accused would be a better model for what I'm suggesting. Norma Rae would be another, or Courage Under Fire.
 
As court and police procedurals are some of the most loved categories of TV and film, I disagree.
Modern court dramas are not "procedurals" (the Perry Mason/ 12 Angry Men style has long since gone out of fashion, since it isn't as exciting as a CSI 'Enhance!' or flashy cgi animation of a complete cartridge flying out the muzzle of a gun)

TCB
 
I feel like this has become a pointless conversation, but have you ever seen Law and Order?
 
Plenty of Americans absolutely do not have firm beliefs either way about firearms.

I can vouch for this. Particularly certain groups who mostly live in big cities kind of grew up knowing police officers carry guns and criminals use guns, but where they live there aren't too many of the latter, and hunting isn't part of the culture there, so they've never really thought about it. I think people like this can be persuaded if they are approached in an easy-going, non-hostile manner. Assuming every non-pro-RKBA is anti and treating them accordingly isn't going to help anything.
 
How about dramatizing some real-life events, like:

1. The young mom with a baby in Oklahoma whose husband died the week before of cancer, BGs come to break in because they figure they will find drugs, she bars the door with a couch, calls 911 and asks if she can shoot them if they succeed in getting in, dispatcher says "Do whatever you need to do to protect yourself and your baby", they get in, she shoots them.

2. Black grandmother in Detroit accosted by two BGs in her driveway, shoots both of them despite being hit four times, retains enough presence of mind to apply pressure to her worst wound while awaiting ambulance.

3. Disabled man in wheelchair shoots BG who has broken into his apartment looking for drugs, then faces eviction for having a firearm.

etc.
 
What is the story, though? Those are events, but they don't contain a story arc that draws the viewer in to the people.

Like I keep saying, the movie can't be just about the shooting.

Philadelphia was film about a court case involving AIDS prejudice. The film is about the case, but the effect on society was a change in perception about AIDS.

Blood Diamond was an action film about smuggling that raised awareness about modern slavery.

The story needs to be about the people's lives, not the thing you want to raise awareness about. If the story ends with the shooting, then it is about the shooting and it is a thriller about shooting people.
 
One way not to do it is to have Wayne La Pierre do TV adds, He doesn't have the voice for it and comes off stiff and weird. Even if you added English subtitles he would still be ineffective.

Better approach would be short, real, case histories like those presented in the American Rifleman's magazine or those mentioned 2 posts above. Use professional or well-known speakers and keep it real and to the point. Go for the gut, not the intellect.

So much for the propaganda war, the real reason we are losing/likely to lose in near future is that people control is a partisan issue, and the majority party has the bigger voter base and is importing more Democrats all the time.

At some stage it isn't about logic, the Constitution, or right or wrong, it is about power and who has the votes. Where the liberals have the votes they will use the power and squash us.
 
What is the story, though? Those are events, but they don't contain a story arc that draws the viewer in to the people.

Like I keep saying, the movie can't be just about the shooting.

Philadelphia was film about a court case involving AIDS prejudice. The film is about the case, but the effect on society was a change in perception about AIDS.

Blood Diamond was an action film about smuggling that raised awareness about modern slavery.

The story needs to be about the people's lives, not the thing you want to raise awareness about. If the story ends with the shooting, then it is about the shooting and it is a thriller about shooting people.

I like where you are going with this, and am curious if perhaps a compare-contrast of people of different backgrounds involved in different events would perhaps illustrate just how different people are and how this results in such different uses of firearms? After all, we constantly have to remind non-gun people that this is an issue concerning people, not objects. If we focus on the gun, or we focus on an event, we are missing some of the most humanizing elements.

I've noticed that a lot of people without exposure to firearms or gun culture have certain impressions about gun owners that are likely coming from television, movies, video games, special interest groups, and (subjective) media. They often depict character deficiencies, psychological problems, violent tendencies, and a lack of reasoning, civility, & intellect, and this is often used as a justification for gun control. We all know that couldn't be further from the truth, but how could someone without first-hand experience know this? They are exposed to this almost non-stop.

Should we address many of the longstanding misconceptions about firearms and firearm owners? We should absolutely engage in diversity outreach and make it clear that we welcome people of ALL backgrounds, and would love to meet new people and bring them into the hobby. For example, take Maj Toure of the Black Guns Matter movement...I've met him and he is AWESOME, and I've seen him speak to a room full of people with negative thoughts on guns, and an hour later many of those people are enquiring where to receive firearms training.

Also, should we examine the lives of people who use guns offensively against innocent people? Could we examine the lives of people who aren't there yet but seem to be on the way, and consider how a non-gun-related solution could potentially do what gun control never has and never will? And given something crazy like half of gun-related deaths are suicide, we could look at the behavioral health aspect of treatment (to further emphasize that banning someone from buying a gun isn't going to magically cure major mental illness...but behavioral treatment will.)

Finally, what about the people who have been victimized and were unable to defend themselves due to gun control? I feel like this happens a lot more than it seems, and putting faces to those screwed over by gun control can further emphasize the harm that can come about. Such gun control initiatives may be genuinely intended to save lives, but when the actual outcome is someone being murdered or raped, it is important to show why the theory of gun control fails in practice.
 
A buddy of mine and I have tossed around the idea of re-creating key scenes from a whole slew of horror stories, suspense and drama; where instead of succeeding in horror and mayhem...the bad guy is promptly dispatched with the proper application of a 12 gauge.

The whole "time and money" thing gets in the way of gettin 'er done, though.

It's hard to sell the idea of assuming risk, gaining training and retaining personal responsibility, to people who have succumbed to the ease of 21st century America.
 
I can vouch for this. Particularly certain groups who mostly live in big cities kind of grew up knowing police officers carry guns and criminals use guns, but where they live there aren't too many of the latter, and hunting isn't part of the culture there, so they've never really thought about it. I think people like this can be persuaded if they are approached in an easy-going, non-hostile manner. Assuming every non-pro-RKBA is anti and treating them accordingly isn't going to help anything.

Very true. It is hard for people that come to an internet forum to talk about guns to imagine but the majority of people don't have much contact with guns. Not because they thing they are evil but because they don't have any use for one.
 
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