South Bend Lathe Model A

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Keeperfaith

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A friend of mine is selling off his late fathers tools and equipment. One item is a South Bend Model A lathe. He says its WWII era old, I don't know anything about lathes but I do know they are used in gunsmithing (a craft I hope to learn).

Can anyone tell me if it is worth buying? Are there simple projects an amateur like me can learn to build without much training? What are some projects I can do? The price is $500.

He's also selling welders, tig, mig and arch. Which would be the best for gunsmithing work? I plan to "pin and weld" a muzzle brake on an 11.5" barrel for a full legal 16" barrel (ar-15).


Thanks
Steve
 
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You can start filing Form 1s and by the time they get returned with stamps you can have taught yourself the necessary skills to start making silencers for all your guns. :)
 
No way to tell what the lathe is work without knowing it's condition or the tooling that comes with it (tooling will typically be MUCH more expensive than the lathe itself). However, a nice South Bend is usually easily worth $500.

As far as welders, the TIG is the most versatile by far. MIG would have limited uses, and I can't even imagine a use for an arc welder on a gun!
 
from a gun smith point of view I can help you not one bit. From being in the tool and die trade for 20 years I might have some help. I would assume the South bend is probably a 3 X 9". I would thing just about anything you want to do to a gun can be done easily and at most a couple set up's to do the hard stuff. If it was in a home use I would bet it is in good shape. Look the ways over for pitting rust...surface rust is no big deal. Of course move everything and make sure it is free. Depending on how old it is it is more then likely belt driven. Which is fine but gear driven will be even better. Make sure knobs and handles seem to be there. Now the big thing is the stuff to go with it...tool heads, extra chucks, cutters and tooling are the big thing. The more the better. Price wise not bad. I have seen them as cheap as $200 and as much as $800 but if it is right there in front of you that is worth $150..Reason I say that is because you are looking at it and not a picture. And you are not paying shipping..

As far as welder as stated about TIG would be better but MIG would work. Stick not much at all (as far as for gun) but if you can pick it up cheap enough get it ($100 or less) because you will always find a use for a stick welder.
 
A SB 9" x 54" bed Model A is what I have. About 36" between centers. Limited by the length between centers and the hole through the headstock, but you can do lots of work on one if you apply yourself and can adapt setups to the lathe's limitations. Certainly worth it for $500 even if worn. They can be rebuilt fairly easily and parts are pretty common. Even if you buy a larger one later, you will still find some uses for the SB. They're just plain handy.
 
BBBBill said:
A SB 9" x 54" bed Model A is what I have. About 36" between centers. Limited by the length between centers and the hole through the headstock, but you can do lots of work on one if you apply yourself and can adapt setups to the lathe's limitations. Certainly worth it for $500 even if worn. They can be rebuilt fairly easily and parts are pretty common. Even if you buy a larger one later, you will still find some uses for the SB. They're just plain handy.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what BBBill said:
If one knows machining those lathes are great. If a newbie to working metal, get something more modern. I have an old Atlas, and it's worn and sloppy, but still useful to me (and many others who "borrow" it), but I wouldn't try to buy one unless very cheap. If new to metal work, get a newer lathe, then a milling machine.
As far as welding, the only thing a gunsmith would have use for is a TIG machine.
 
You won't be doing any work on really heavy barrels unless you chuck them at the muzzle and use a steady. The bore is too small to pass a heavy barrel, or at least it is on my 1936 vintage C model.
 
If it runs, has a 10" swing and can take a 30" long object (30" between centers), buy it! I bet it'll come with a lot of accessories like a three jaw chuck, four jaw chuck, face plate, lathe dogs, steady rest, live center, dead center, etc. You can taper barrels, cut out shanks and thread them, crown your muzzles (false crown) and all sorts of things.

Take two weeks of machine shop at NRA Summer Gunsmithing School for an intense hands on course on using machines. Either that or find a junior college that teaches machine shop.

As for welders, get the TIG welder. You can fill pits with it and weld two objects together. NRA teaches that at Lassen and at Trinidad.
 
Unless your friend's father was doing production work and ran that lathe 24/7, it is probably still in excellent condition. I say the same as others - buy it!

If that hollow headstock is large enough, it will come in handy in many ways for barrel work, like crowning without removing the barrel from the receiver.

Jim
 
BTW, there are instructions online on how to rifle a barrel on a lathe. I bought the book years ago before it was republished online.

We have a newer, Taiwanese made South Bend at school. Everyone hates it and will use a 1940s South Bend first. At the Shot Show, some guy asked my classmates about it. One classmate was diplomatic. The other was blunt and said, "It's a piece of sh*t."
 
As with many things condition is the big question.

On a lathe the key factor is the condition of the main bed ways and the ways on the cross slide. Look for signs of wear and gouging on the main bedways for the first couple of feet where the carriage runs the most. If the bed ways look less than crisp in that area or if you can span this area with a good metal 12 inch straight edge and get more than a .002 shim to slip under the middle then the bed is worn badly. Even being able to get ANY sort of shim under a straight edge like this would indicate wear which would make doing really precise work all but impossible. You'd still be able to do small parts but anything longer would be badly affected by the tool points following the hollowing out of the bed.

The same testing and comments would apply to the bed of the carriage.

On the other hand there's lots of older machines that were well treated. But you really need to bring along a good straight edge and a range of shims in .001, .0015 and .002 sizes and test.

If the bed is worn to where you can easily slip a .002 shim under the foot long edge then I'd pass. It won't really matter what the price is or what comes with it. A worn bed is a deal killer.

If it turns out that the bed and carriage ways are in good shape then $500 is a give a way price. But sadly if the bed testing shows issues then it'll be an expensive boat anchor. It's like the nicest knife in the world is not of any use at all if the edge is dull. The difference being that it doesn't cost many hundreds of dollars to sharpen a knife where aligning and grinding the bed ways certainly would.
 
Bed ways can be scraped to renew them. I would not toss a lathe due to that issue. Now it might not be a good deal for someone with no time, no patience, or the need to be immediately/continuously productive.
 
Yes they can. But it's not at all cost effective if the owner can't take the time and has to get a shop to do the work. That's why shops do surface grinding instead these days.

And by someone new to metal working? And without a suitable surface plate to use as a guide for the scraping work? A proper scraping job relies on a known true surface to use for the dye transfer to see where more scraping is needed.

And it's an advanced sort of skill that is all but lost in todays CNC sort of world. Not the sort of thing that a newbie to metal working should be thinking of trying.
 
Since you state you don't have knowledge of lathes, you'll want to find a course in "Shop Theory 101" for lathes. I'm not familiar with NRA's course. If you haven't been around machinery, there is much to learn just in safety alone. Though they look to be small machines, they can cause you harm that could be with you for the rest of your life.

Is it a bench top lathe? If so, does it come with a sturdy bench that it can bolt down to.

As others have said, if it comes with little to no tooling, the cost can be considerable. MSC is one place has an online site that you can purchase add-ons as you go. They list from cheap imported to expensive name brand tooling.

All that aside, if you buy it and later figure out that it's not you, you should be able to recoup your money out of it, machine wise. Any tooling you buy will more than likely devalue, like buying a new car.

What is the required power supply. Probably 110 or 220. I really doubt that it would be 3-phase, but you'll want to look into that.
 
kcofohio said:
...Though they look to be small machines, they can cause you harm that could be with you for the rest of your life....
Click to expand...

True. Always important to remember the dangers. A long chip looks neat, but can get caught on your hand and de-glove a finger before you can blink. Chuck wrench left in the chuck become a dangerous projectile when the lathe starts. Lots of other dangers....
 
Even if that lathe was totally worn out I would still buy it sight unseen for $500 since it could be parted out and sold on Ebay for more than that price. If you have room for it and can afford it I say buy it. Odds are it is in decent shape and comes with a lot of tooling and as others have said the tooling usually costs more than the initial machine purchase and doubly so when dealing with old vintage lathes.
 
I hadn't thought about the parting out thing if it turned out to be too badly worn. It would be a fair bit of work to part it out but it would at least let the OP recover his money and even pay a bit for the effort of disassembly and time spent getting the stuff shipped off.

And if by some chance it's in workable shape there's no doubt at all that it's a give away price even if there is no added tooling with it.
 
JUMP ON IT QUICK WITH BOTH FEET BEFORE HE CHANGES HIS MIND! I'M STILL LOOKING FOR ONE! Catpop
 
dprice3844444 that's a delta Rockwell predecessor
Click to expand...
Both links have pictures, in the pictures included both list collet set-ups. If anyone was wondering about the diameter of the bore I believe I can find a collet set-up, all that would be required for me to do is dig.


Elkins45 You won't be doing any work on really heavy barrels unless you chuck them at the muzzle and use a steady. The bore is too small to pass a heavy barrel, or at least it is on my 1936 vintage C model.
Click to expand...

F. Guffey
 
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