Special load data in a Magnum case

[Mr. Mosin]

Looking at buying a .357 Magnum rifle in the near future (Henry Big Boy) and a .357 Magnum revolver (Ruger GP100). Considering getting into reloading for them, when I get em. I have a buddy who reloads all manner of cartridges, and who also happens to be the only person I know knowledgeable about reloading .357 Magnum. Anyways, I read that .38 Spl doesn't like to cycle in the rifle, so the thought occurred to me "Why not load a .357 Mag case with a .38 Spl charge ?" So, I asked him. You'd of thought I was fixing to detonate a bomb in his house. Made it succinctly clear to not load a Magnum case with a Spl charge (which doesn't make sense to me) and not to load a Spl case with a Magnum charge (which *does* make sense to me). Can someone give me any specific reason *why* you wouldn't want to load a .357 Magnum case w/ a .38 Spl charge ? Or .44 Mag/Spl, etc ?

Bear in mind, the only two things I know about reloading is this:

Follow the manual. If possible, compare several manuals and follow all of em.

Start low, work high. Don't drop below the minimum charge listed, don't exceed the maximum charge listed.

 

[Walkalong]

.357 Mag cases/guns are perfectly safe with .38 Spl loads, with the right powders they are perfectly safe with even lighter loads.

Same goes for .44 Mag/.44 Spl.

 

[Olon]

I've read that some powders (blue dot being one of them) show erratic pressures when loaded reduced. In a manual, these powders usually have DNR next to them meaning do not reduce. I think H110 is another, which is why you pretty much only have max loads with that powder. In a way you are making a reduced load by increasing the case volume but keeping the charge the same.

I'm not an expert but that's what understand about the topic. A minimum 357 load or would probably not be much different than a 38 special load I would think. In the same way, a minimum 44 mag load could be considered a 44 magnum special load

I've actually not had any problems running 38s through my big boy. If you run the lever with authority, it works out just fine. When I'm feeling "tactical", I've noticed loading 38s single shot style (with the lever open and through the ejection port(?)) the 38s are easier to get in quickly.

 

[greyling22]

many people will not deviate from a load book. at all. And I think that's fine for folks who don't know what they are doing. But for people who do know what they are doing....load books are more suggestions really. I generally start at the starting charge and work down rather than up. But then, I'm shooting a LOT of lead. Heck, I've got a 357 mag load that pushes a 125grn lead bullet at subsonic velocities out of a 16" barrel. You will never find that in a load book. but it works, and a suppressed lever gun shooting subs brings a huge smile to all faces.


also, 38's do not like to cycle in my particular marlin. That's why I run 357's. I have a rossi 92 that I could adjust the feed guides to cycle either 38's or 357's, but never both. you just had to pick one.

 

[Targa]

I load down .44mag cases to .44spl specs as much as I load full throttle .44mag rounds. My .44 revolvers have never seen .44spl brass, I don’t see a reason for it.

 

[frankmako]

you can load down the 357 mag to shoot very easy. look at different load data to see. just because it says mag at the end you don't have to load it like a mag.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said, it is perfectly safe to load a .357 Magnum cast to .38 Special pressures. It's a fun way to spend the day at the range. All you need to do is use the correct powders and not powders which are intolerant to downloading like H-110/W-296.

I use a 5.0gr charge of W231 under a 158gr bullet and a CCI-500 primer. You can go even lighter to 4.0gr W231 without worries.

 

[Random 8]

Tell him to pick up a Lyman 49th edition manual. There are cast bullet loads there specifically booked for .357 magnum that operate at .38 Spl velocities, pressures, and most importantly recoil. That should set his mind at ease. I believe Hodgdon and Alliant also list loads with cast bullets in the .357 case that overlap .38 spl numbers.

 

[243winxb]

38 velocities may not allow a 158gr jacketed or heavier bullet to exit the muzzle of a rifle.


https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-stuck-a-bullet-in-a-357mag-rifle-today.513183/

 

[Mr. Mosin]

38 velocities may not allow a 158gr jacketed or heavier bullet to exit the muzzle of a rifle.

I think that may have been his concern. He loads and shoots nothing but full house bear loads and target wadcutters for his .44 Magnum, and some kind of hollow point and FMJ for his .45 Auto, and (I don't know what) for his various rifles. He no longer actually *has* a .357 Magnum. It was stolen, a few years back.

So, in short, watch for certain powders and certain combinations of bullet weights and charges that may not have the velocity to exit a rifle ? All id really want is a ~158 grn lead flat nose at .38 Spl levels in a .357 Magnum case. Rabbit hunting and target shooting. Serious hunting and defensive purposes would call for (to me) a full house Magnum.

On a side note, *will* the Henry tolerate the hot loads or the "Ruger Only" loads ?

 

[243winxb]

158 grn lead flat nose at .38 Spl levels

Hodgdon has rifle data in 357 mag brass in the 900 fps range, using lead bullets.

On a side note, *will* the Henry tolerate the hot loads or the "Ruger Only" loads ?

No idea." Ruger only" is for 45 colt? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/henry-big-boy-classic-and-ruger-only-loads.835173/

From Hodgdon

45 Colt: 45 Colt data is listed in two categories. The first is intended for original Colt revolvers and their replicas. Max pressure, is 14,000 CUP. The second category is 45 Colt (Ruger Blackhawk, Freedom Arms and Thompson/Center Contender/Encore handguns. Max pressure, 30,000 CUP. Do not use these data in any other make or model of firearm.

 

[243winxb]

45 Colt in a Henry Rifle-

Here is the response I got from Henry
Thank you for owning a Henry rifle.
I do not have any information on what loads are specific to other manufacturers' firearms.

In general, for Big Boys chambered for either .44 Magnum or .45LC, you can use any reputable brand of the standard and +P factory loads, with standard profile bullets (round-nose, flat-nose, and hollow-point), up to maximum projectile weight of 260-grains, and which conforms to SAAMI specs.

Regards,

Jeffrey Post
Customer Service

From - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...y-Big-Boy-handle-the-Ruger-only-45-colt-loads

SAAMI maximum listed PSI is 14,000. No listing for any +P load.

So, i dont know if safe or not to use "Ruger Only" loads.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Hodgdon has rifle data in 357 mag brass in the 900 fps range, using lead bullets.


No idea." Ruger only" is for 45 colt? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/henry-big-boy-classic-and-ruger-only-loads.835173/

From Hodgdon

Hodgdon data is a .357 Magnum load from a *rifle*, @ 900 FPS ? I'm willing to say that's probably about as low as your gonna get and not have a bullet stuck in the barrel.

 

[243winxb]

Lead is more forgiving then copper jackets. Note that the 900 fps is with a lead bullet.

Case: Winchester
Twist: 1:18.75"
Primer: Winchester SPM, Small Pistol Magnum
Barrel Length: 18.5"

Magnum primer used.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Buddy also said that even though Ruger revolvers are built like tanks, to still start low, and work up. Make just a few of XX load, see how your gun likes it. How accurate is it, are there any signs of excessive pressure, etc ? If that load is showing no wrong signs, step up; and try again. Do this until you get to the max load that your gun likes, then work within that range. He was also generous enough to offer to show me how to start reloading.

 

[RKRCPA]

Sometimes I think people confuse "loading to 38 special levels in magnum cases" with using "38 special load in a magnum case". Those are to very different concepts.A light 38 special load in a magnum case could very easily stick a bullet in the bore.

 

[mdi]

I don't have a "degree" in internal ballistics, but I have been reloading revolvers since about '69 so I can only share my experiences. I have loaded "Special" data in Magnum brass for many, many years (and prolly thousands of times). My most loaded is the 44 Magnum, and I have a 44 Magnum carbine that doesn't like Special length cartridges, so I often use Special data in Magnum brass for easy shooting ammo. I have loaded my 357 with DEWCs to 38 Special levels (light loads of Bullseye) and have never stuck a bullet in a barrel. I would not use any very slow pistol powders, but there's no need anyway as the object is lighter than Magnum loads in Magnum brass, or as in the case of the OP's, 38 Special loads in 357 Magnum brass...

If there is any fear of Special data in Magnum brass, just start with min. loads as listed for Magnums, and deal with the recoil and muzzle blast...

 

[Varminterror]

Sometimes I think people confuse "loading to 38 special levels in magnum cases" with using "38 special load in a magnum case". Those are to very different concepts.A light 38 special load in a magnum case could very easily stick a bullet in the bore.

This.

You’ll see certain powders in some manuals will only have one charge weight, typically a max weight, with a “DNR” in the starting load column - Do Not Reduce.

Other than these very few powders, in general, it’s USUALLY safe to drop a .38spcl charge into a .357mag case, however, it is ALWAYS safe to increase the .38spcl charge by 10% when using 357mag cases. This will yield roughly the same pressure in the larger case, ensuring you don’t stall a bullet in the bore. Only the lightest of charges have a risk of stalling, it’s not so uncommon to develop loads in the 600fps ballpark, which still clears the barrel with ease - if you see 38 data down in that ballpark, add the 10%. If the 38 data is faster than 800, most likely it’ll drop into a .357mag case without any issues.

Welcome to the world of handloading, rather than simply reloading.