Speed Drills: How to get faster?

[WrongHanded]

I don't want to make this complicated, but I feel like it will be anyway. I recently switched to using a G23 and G22 (.357 Sig conversions) for Concealed Carry and Home Defense. I've decided to take my handgun self defense skills more seriously, and to train with purpose using just the Glock platform.

Some drills, I can practice with dry fire at home using a shot time. And then confirm on the range. I'm working on this. It's getting better.

But when it comes to multiple quick hits, I find I'm as slow as I've ever been. I tried the Bill Drill multiple times today and shot most of it high (which is not the gun). 6 shots from concealment, at 7 yards onto an 8" target, in 3.5 seconds. I'm just not used to shooting that fast, and I'm having a hard time perceiving what's going on.

It seems to me that I'm not going to get any faster by shooting slowly. I don't know if maybe I need to work on controlled pairs, and speeding up whilst staying on target. Or if I should shoot maybe 5 shots under a given time, and try to refine accuracy as I go.

Any tips, tricks or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Obviously, this is just one aspect of defensive pistol use, but I'd really like to improve in this area.

 

[FL-NC]

Sounds like you are trying to do too much. 1- Set more modest realistic goals- like 2 shots at presentation in 1.5 seconds. Start "small" like that and work your way up to engagements with more rounds on target. Personally, I think 2 shots on 2-3 targets is more valuable than 6 shots on 1. 2- Use a pro-timer every time. 3- Break the exercise down into a series of events, and know when you can "rush" as well as when you need to "slow down"; you can "rush" bringing the firing hand to the gun and achieving the grip and activating the retention, but you need to "throttle down" bringing the pistol to bear, getting the sight picture, and activating the trigger. 4- Being critiqued by a trained observer pays dividends. Prefect practice makes perfect. Consider investing in some professional training.

 

[drband]

Professional training will save you a lot of time and ammo.

For myself, I've found that I tend to hold the trigger to the rear (follow through) like I'm shooting at targets for accuracy. I'm working on getting the trigger finger off the trigger more quickly in order to shoot doubles and just for speed in general. I worked for accuracy (slow fire) for so long, this is a very ingrained habit, but I'm making progress now. I find that I'm still getting acceptable groups for defensive purposes that way.

 

[IlikeSA]

I'll echo the professional training piece, as well as the slow down, make realistic goals piece.

Just like anything, learning to shoot quick and accurate requires a lot of structured practice doing it the right way every time. One can learn to juggle by tossing 1 single ball in the air, then slowly adding a second and third to it. I think that is what you need to do to get better at the Bill drill.

Film your draw on your phone or camera. Look at the uneconomical movements. Work on smoothing them out.

Film your shooting at the range. I like to practice with two paper plates, going back and forth between them. Record it, and watch how you are moving. Your eyes should be shifting back and forth first, not looking at the first target after the shot to see if you hit it, and then your firearm will move to align with your eyes. Your finger will be depressing the trigger to the point it goes off when your pistol is aligned with the target.* It's a lot to do and explain in print. Get someone to coach you.

*this drill is a lot easier to do with a DA revolver than a non DA semi auto if you want to practice at home dry firing.

 

[taliv]

ust like anything, learning to shoot quick and accurate requires a lot of structured practice doing it the right way every time. One can learn to juggle by tossing 1 single ball in the air, then slowly adding a second and third to it. I think that is what you need to do to get better at the Bill drill.

this

start by firing rapidly (2-3 rounds) from low ready. once you can do that, you know your grip and trigger is ok. then add the draw. now do the bill drill. the value of bill drill just confirms you have control, good grip, and your mental state doesn't wander off after a few rounds. the 10-10-10 and half drills are even better.
next start adding in transitions between multiple targets.
finally, work on the el prez.

if you start on the complicated stuff, you will struggle more than getting each of the basics down and then putting it together.

however, it's controversial, but i would recommend going as fast as you can, then working on accuracy, rather than working on accuracy and trying to speed up.

 

[drband]

this

start by firing rapidly (2-3 rounds) from low ready. once you can do that, you know your grip and trigger is ok. then add the draw. now do the bill drill. the value of bill drill just confirms you have control, good grip, and your mental state doesn't wander off after a few rounds. the 10-10-10 and half drills are even better.
next start adding in transitions between multiple targets.
finally, work on the el prez.

if you start on the complicated stuff, you will struggle more than getting each of the basics down and then putting it together.

however, it's controversial, but i would recommend going as fast as you can, then working on accuracy, rather than working on accuracy and trying to speed up.

Yes, at some point you have to go all out to see where you stand.

 

[WrongHanded]

Yes, at some point you have to go all out to see where you stand.

That's actually pretty much what I did with the Bill Drill. I think I managed to get in under the beep more often than not (I tried 5 times, and it was close each time). But when I brought the target back in, I could see half my shots were high and off the target. I should have checked between strings, but stupidly didn't. So, at a guess, I'd say I was letting the gun rise too much with recoil and the second half of each string was going high. Yep, too much too soon.

So thank you all for the replies so far. I'm going to try from low ready, and shoot 3 shots. I'll try it in 2 seconds to start with and if that's successful, I'll cut it down from there. I'll keep the 8" targets at 7 yards. And try and carefully monitor what I do. I better start taking notes.

I'll start looking round at training options too. My local range looks to have some possibilities that won't break the bank.

 

[ATLDave]

I tried the Bill Drill multiple times today and shot most of it high (which is not the gun).... 6 shots from concealment, at 7 yards onto an 8" target, in 3.5 seconds. I'm just not used to shooting that fast, and I'm having a hard time perceiving what's going on.

(bold added)

The good news: 1) Looks like your gun handling is up to the task (thanks to your dry fire). 2) Looks like your trigger finger can run fast enough. 3) The last sentence in bold shows you're thinking about this in the right way.

It's hard to reliably shoot faster than you can perceive. If you've never worked on tracking sights at speed before, it's not something most people can learn overnight. The more rapidly the front sight moves in recoil, and the bigger its rise-and-return arc, the harder it is to learn to track it. Picking relatively lightweight guns and running .357 Sig out of them is not making this an easier task.

There are basically 2 ways to go from where you are: A) Intentionally ease the task, have success getting your visual processing up to speed, then take your faster processing/awareness back to your original challenge; or B) blast through ammo and train your brain through brute force.

Option B will take an unknown amount of time and ammo. Potentially many thousands of rounds and months or years of dedicated practice.

I'm a fan of Option A. One way to ease the task of tracking the sights at speed is to improve your mechanical recoil control and just keep the sights from moving so much.... but that's a tall order. So it may be worth exploring some other paths.

Here's a question for you: Can you do what you're attempting with a .22lr?

 

[jmorris]

How fast can you physically dump a mag of unaimed fire into a berm, starting aimed at the berm with your finger on the trigger?

Now see how fast you can dump a mag into a target at seven yards, regardless of hits, again aimed at target, finger on the trigger. The time should be almost identical or maybe even faster, now that you are warmed up.

If that is the case, you are really not trying to shoot any faster, rather do the other things faster.

A total time = reaction time, draw, aim, number of shots, split time with index, reloads, any required movements. What one is your largest number? That’s the best place to start.

 

[jmorris]

A friend of mine, when he was wanting to move up in pistol sports already had blazing splits (.1”s) but didn’t see the other details that kept him from finishing above shooters with slower splits.

He put up a camera on a tripod and recorded stages from the same vantage point. Then started them all at the sound of the buzzer, overlaying him against other shooters for playback. It instantly revealed where his time was wasted and others gained despite spending more time firing shots.

Both he and his son are grandmaster shooters now.

 

[WrongHanded]

I'm a fan of Option A. One way to ease the task of tracking the sights at speed is to improve your mechanical recoil control and just keep the sights from moving so much.... but that's a tall order. So it may be worth exploring some other paths.

Here's a question for you: Can you do what you're attempting with a .22lr?

I like the sound of option A.

Honestly, I have no idea about doing it with a .22lr pistol. I've never owned one. Though, trying with a .22 does seem like a good idea. I suppose I could rent one at the range.

I could also buy a 9mm conversion barrel and train with 9mm for the reduction in recoil. It's not the direction I was hoping to go, but perhaps I need to consider it.

 

[ATLDave]

If you were trying to learn to hit a baseball, would you want to learn to swing by going only to the fast cage and seeing 80+ mph balls? Or would you want to hit some soft tosses and then some 60 mph pitches to learn the basics, then try doing it against faster pitches? Not just because of the mechanics, but because you need to learn to track the ball with your eyes?

I think a range session with the rental .22 might be a good use of your time and money. You'll be able to see the front sight in recoil so much better... and the visual cortex part of your brain will have a much better idea of what it's trying to do with the ..357 sig stuff.

But make no mistake, you're pursuing something that is somewhat difficult, and you're combining it with a platform/cartridge combo that is going to totally expose any deficiencies in recoil control. Learning to shoot and process at speed is not something that can be achieved immediately. It's OK to find it challenging, and it's great that you've zeroed in on a loss of awareness/processing as the big obstacle.

 

[TonyAngel]

I started out shooting and had the advantage of shooting with some guys that were really good. I couldn't afford formal instruction, so just picked up tid bits here and there.

I was always told that you can't miss fast enough to put your target down. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Yeah, that sounds kind of screwed up, but the meaning is not to rush. You should go at your own pace. Drawing and hitting a target is as much of a practiced action as it is a developed skill. And practice, practice, practice. How's that saying go? Do not practice until you get it right...practice until you can't get it wrong.

I do appreciate the importance of sight acquisition and their use, but hitting a target at self defense distances isn't just about being able to track the sights. When I practice self defense drills, all I'm tracking is the front sight. Practice and repetition is what puts me on target most of the time.

When I was much younger, I'm thinking in the 90's, my first competitive shooting was done at a local range. A steel plate match. 5 steel plates of about 10" diameter 25 feet from the firing line. There were these two guys. A father and son. Max Michel Sr. and Jr. Some of you might recognize Jr.'s name. Anyway, when they shot against each other it was truly something to see. They were actually coming out of the holster and engaging the first one or two targets before the sight was even lined up. Sights/dot had nothing to do with hitting the target.

Another useful bit that helped me go faster was to get used to letting go of the trigger after I pulled it. Resetting the trigger should not be the first step in firing a shot.

Oh, and get a timer. Without a timer, you're just guessing and don't go too fast trying to accomplish too much. A reasonable goal to work toward is being able to draw and fire 3 rounds in 3 seconds. Or make it four seconds and work your way up.

I also believe that using a .22 for trigger time is a good idea, but it won't make you faster with your carry gun. Due to the lack of recoil impulse it just isn't the same. In fact, I feel that shooting a .22 and running drills will cause you to try to go too fast when you move to your "real" gun. On the other hand, practicing with my carry has made me very fast with a .22.

 

[taliv]

the alternative pov is like learning a language. they say the only people who can't learn morse code at 20 wpm are people who learned it at 5 wpm. people who try to learn a language by memorizing grammar rules and vocabulary and hearing people talk slow seem to never get to a conversational fluency like people who learn by immersing themselves into conversations at normal pace, even though that is daunting and may sound like jibberish for months or years. (of course, i'm just repeating what i've heard here as the only other language i've learned personally is Latin)

i don't want to speak for the roger's school method, but i understand their pop up targets run the same speed all week, and people miss a lot the first few days but are mostly hitting by the end of the week.

as an example, if you watch a 3gun match with stages that involve movement, you will see time after time after time, guys who learned to shoot standing still, stop, shoot and then move again. it's really a struggle to get them to shoot while moving. so several years ago i taught some carbine classes and sort of as an experiment, after we did an initial zero at 50 yards, i started new shooters off shooting on the move. they were awkward for a while but got the hang of it. later, they didn't exhibit the same tendency to pause movement for a shot. i was pretty pleased.

i think the potential downside of shooting a handgun slow, to start, is that you develop bad grip habits. no matter how bad your grip, you can shoot accurately slow. tracking your sights and pulling the trigger again are kinda like learning to call your shot. you can't do it dry fire. i wouldn't want someone to get 1000 reps in, and then when they try to speed up, find that they have to adjust their grip and have to unlearn, and relearn. that's why in my earlier post, i put drills that involve shooting a couple rounds fast, before learning to draw from a holster. if you can't shoot 6 rounds in a row without adjusting your grip, you don't want to practice drawing from a holster, cause you're just going to have to unlearn and relearn it once you fix your grip.

 

[jmorris]

A reasonable goal to work toward is being able to draw and fire 3 rounds in 3 seconds.

I think, from the OP, he is already beyond that.

I tried the Bill Drill multiple times today and shot most of it high (which is not the gun). 6 shots from concealment, at 7 yards onto an 8" target, in 3.5 seconds. I'm just not used to shooting that fast, and I'm having a hard time perceiving what's going on.

As an example of what I was talking about earlier, with a 2.5 draw to first shot and 5, .20 splits, that puts him at 3.5 seconds.

To get to 3 seconds flat, he could knock his draw to 2.0 and keep the .20 splits, keep the 2.5 draw and cut his splits in half to .1 or a combination of the two. It’s a lot easier to knock .5 off the 2.5 draw than go from .2’s to .1’s.

As long as one it safe it’s informative to know how fast they can go just for speeds sake, as well as how accurate they can be for the other end. Gives one a base for expectations and an idea what direction they should go.

As for perception, what I was talking about starting off with in #9 allows you to just see what you and the firearm can do, your focus can be just on the front sight, as there is nothing else to look at, you are aiming at nothing.

 

[fastbolt]

It's not uncommon for us to not know what we don't know.

As a younger LE firearms instructor, when I wanted to improve my draw and presentation speed I found that after the first 10,000 proper repetitions had been done, most of it under the watchful eye of the senior instructor (if only to monitor what I was "practicing"), it didn't seem to be as much of a problem.

Speed of functioning the trigger and reacquiring the intended target for rapid shot strings? That was something I really had to work on under the watchful eye of the head instructor. He was able to refine my grip technique under changing conditions, my trigger technique (especially regarding recovery and optimal press), my postural balance and body alignment (especially during movement), and then help me eliminate counter productive aspects of my overall technique where I was taking unnecessary time between intentional shots.

In other words, some things are best diagnosed, refined and then accomplished by seeking out the right instructor(s). Would you think to become a better martial arts practitioner by only reading about it, or would you want an experienced instructor to help you identify, correct and refine your techniques ... after helping you know what you don't know?

Maybe you can find a locally based competitor or instructor who works out of a local range on weekends or evenings, and offers even short 4hr class blocks, or longer. Maybe you might find some local talent at an IDPA event?

Trial and error can be frustrating, especially if you aren't yet able to consistently recognize when "error" may be involved.

 

[ATLDave]

I was always told that you can't miss fast enough to put your target down. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Yeah, that sounds kind of screwed up, but the meaning is not to rush. You should go at your own pace.

That’s a good recipe for performing at your current level of skill/speed. It’s not a recipe for significant speed gains in a reasonable amount of time. The OP is trying to get faster. He already knows how to hit targets with slow, smooth, deliberative firing.

I also believe that using a .22 for trigger time is a good idea, but it won't make you faster with your carry gun. Due to the lack of recoil impulse it just isn't the same. In fact, I feel that shooting a .22 and running drills will cause you to try to go too fast when you move to your "real" gun.

Only if you’re shooting a cadence, rather than visually processing the sights. People used to say the same thing about dry-firing at speeds that don’t include any recoil delay.

From the OP’s post, it seems he already knows how to pull a trigger fast. So that’s not the point of the .22. It’s to learn to track sights. You’re right it won’t teach recoil control, or at least won’t grade it as harshly.

But the OP says he’s having a hard time maintaining awareness of what is happening when he’s shooting fast. Once he learns to see the sights, he’ll be getting lots of feedback about his recoil control. He’ll be able to see how much he’s letting the muzzle move and can start meaningfully working on it. But first he has to see it and be able to see it through multiple rapid shots. The .22 can help him get over that hump. It did for me, anyway.

 

[murf]

don't bother aligning your sights, your consistent grip will do that for you.

aim at a real small spot at the center of your target, pull the trigger when the front sight hits the spot and follow the bullet to the target (with your mind) for a split second, then you repeat the process. start with a nice even cadence then start going faster while retaining the cadence (stay smooth at all times).

don't worry about hitting the small spot, just keep your mind on - front sight, press, repeat.

luck,

murf

 

[WrongHanded]

Okay @ATLDave , you've convinced me. I'll see about renting a .22lr next time I go to the range. I think I might have a free rental available anyway. Such a shame I'll be limited on ammo, due to the outrageously high cost of. 22lr.

I'll do my best, trying to see that front sight at speed.

 

[jmorris]

My friend sent me an example of how he does the videos so you can compare directly different stage strategy/performance from different shooters.

Makes it pretty easy to see.

 

[taliv]

cool trick

 

[WrongHanded]

Update:

I rented an SR22 at the range, and bought 200 rounds.

I set the targets out at 7 yards. 8" black circle with a 1.5" red center. I set my shot timer for 2.0 seconds, attempting to get 5 shots on target from a low ready in that time.

The first 50 rounds didn't go very well. The gun wasn't cycling correctly, the trigger reset was longer than I expect, and I found the gun shot a couple inches high. But after the first 50, I had things somewhat ironed out and started using the timer.

It was taking me just under a second from low ready to my first shot. Splits varied, particularly when I flubbed the reset. But seemed to be between 0.27s and 0.20s. I had a few lower and few higher, but to be conservative I'd say 0.24s was my average split time. I frequently came in under the 2.0s limit I set.

My last 50 rounds were shot at this target. And I know I only got 48 rounds on target.

So not great. However, I did get a better understanding of what I should be looking for.

My next step is (as I've said before), same distance target and time, but with 3 shots of a centerfire cartridge. And I just bought a 9mm conversion barrel and RSA for my G22. Which has arrived and fits. I'll see what I can do that, and go from there.

I'm also going to take a basic practical pistol course, and see where the instructor thinks I'm at, and what I need to work on.

 

[WrongHanded]

2nd Update:

I went to the range with my G22 gen4 and 9mm Lone Wolf conversion barrel. It worked flawlessly with the G17 RSA and .40S&W magazines.

I used 100 rounds of Federal 115gr FMJ.

8" target out at 7 yards. Timer set to 2.0s. Shot from low ready.

I quickly figured out that I couldn't get off 5 shots and stay on target. But 5 shots in 2.0s wasn't really my goal this session anyway. I experimented with 2 shots, and then settled on 3 shots in 2.0s (which was my original intent anyway).

The last 50 rounds were all shot at one target. So 3 shots in 2.0s (except for the last 2 rounds).

By my count, I got 42 (+ or - 1) in the 8" circle. 4 shots hit the target outside of the black, and therefore 4 shots (+ or - 1) missed completely. I say + or - 1, because I couldn't get an accurate count with those clover leaf areas.

The bad news is, it's not as good as the .22lr. More misses, and fewer shots in the same time.

The good news, is that I consistently came in under 2.0s. I was often in the 1.6 - 1.9s range. My first shots pretty consistently were under 1.0s but not by much more than 0.1s. My splits were around 0.30-0.34s. Any faster and I really couldn't see the front sight.

So I've got some work to do. But honestly, it feels like a big improvement from where I was a few weeks ago. Although I've yet to try with the higher recoiling .357 Sig load. I may also need to work on trigger control more too.

I did remind myself in my range notebook, that my focus needs to be on faster hits, and not on running the trigger as fast as possible. My motto at work is "As fast as you can do it right!" And I think that should be my focus here too.

 

[murf]

keeping your rhythm no matter the speed is important, but pushing hard and loosing your rhythm is how you get faster.

working on trigger control can be done at home.

nice shootin,

murf

 

[1942bull]

A training tip from my experience in the Corps. With the M1911 we trained intensively for accuracy. Once we had that down we trained for speed which was never as important as accuracy. Two fast shots to center mass is no more effective that one shot in the head or at the base of the breastbone. A single shot in either pace will incapacitate an adversary. If you hit high on the head you hit the brain. If you hit lower than the brain the bullet goes to the brain stem or spinal column. If you hit high on the breast bone you endanger the major arteries and veins and can on to the spine. If you hit low o the breastbone you get the hear t and lungs If you shoot for the bottom of the breastbone and let the muzzle rise as you fire two more rounds you cans shock the heart. lungs. with eh third bullet in the neck assuming you a proper refund for self defense. If you hit the target accurately that way, the follow up shots almost automatic because you are not trying to control muzzle rise. SD and target shooting a very different Most instructors apply target shooting technique to self defense instruction. That is not good.