Speer 10mm 200gr Gold Dot in Clear Ballistics Gel

[5pins]

Test Gun: Delta Elite
Barrel length: 5 inches.
Ammunition: Speer 10mm 200gr Gold Dot.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1028fps
Gel Temperature 77 degrees.

I finally picked up a box of this ammo when Target Sports had it in stock when I ordered a bunch of 9mm ammo. I got a five-shot average of 1028fps with a high of 1040 and a low 1014fps.



Round one in the bare gel had a velocity of 1042fps and penetrated to 16 inches. Recovered weight was 199.3 grains and expansion was .65 inches. Round two also penetrated to 16 inches. Recovered diameter was .66 inches and weight was 199.1 grains. Velocity was 1032fps.




In the heavy clothed gel, the first round's velocity was 1014fps and it penetrated to 18.25 inches. Recovered weight was 199.8 grains and its expansion was .65 inches. The final round penetrated to 17.5 inches and had a recovered weight of 199.6 grains and an expansion of .66 inches. The chronograph did not get a velocity reading.

 

[sparkyv]

Good reproducibility, although sample size is small. I don't usually use 10mm for SD, but this looks like good carry ammo if I did. Good stuff, 5pins.

 

[Elkins45]

Seems slow, but I suppose nobody loads 10mm the way it was intended. The 200 grain bullet in the original Norma load went 1200 fps.

 

[BigBore44]

I really like how those turned out. As soon as my current supply of 180’s runs out, I might just give those bullets a try over a nice charge of BlueDot.

 

[Texas10mm]

Seems slow, but I suppose nobody loads 10mm the way it was intended. The 200 grain bullet in the original Norma load went 1200 fps.

And it beat guns up. I've fired that original Norma loading in my Delta Elite. It's a handful with split times measured in seconds. I load some 200 gr bullets to 1150 and that's plenty for me.

 

[Elkins45]

And it beat guns up. I've fired that original Norma loading in my Delta Elite. It's a handful with split times measured in seconds. I load some 200 gr bullets to 1150 and that's plenty for me.

Yeah, but that's the whole purpose of 10mm...big bullets driven fast. If you want to shoot 10mm bullets slowly then just get a 40 S&W They're practically giving those away on the used market now.

My gun for shooting the heavy 10mm loads is a S&W 1006. I think it's even heavier than the Delta Elite.

 

[Texas10mm]

Yeah, but that's the whole purpose of 10mm. If you want to shoot 10mm bullets slowly then just get a 40 S&W They're practically giving those away on the used market now.

I really wonder what kind of pressures that original loading would give on today's testing equipment.

 

[Elkins45]

I really wonder what kind of pressures that original loading would give on today's testing equipment.

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the first ammo was loaded before there was even a SAAMI spec for the cartridge?
There's a longtime member of several shooting forums "Clark" who points out that the 10mm is actually one of the weakest pistol cases because the decision to use a large primer made the web so thin. I personally have done load development for a 40 S&W barrel in a Glock 20 that has been throated to accept cartridges with the bullet seated out to full 10mm length. The small primer pocket of the 40 S&W makes it a fairly strong case compared to the 10mm, just too short. I think it someone made a 10mm case with a small primer pocket it would not be a problem to load it up to the old Norma velocities...but that would only alleviate the concern with the brass. It would still hammer the guns pretty good.

It would make a darned good carbine round...

 

[Texas10mm]

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the first ammo was loaded before there was even a SAAMI spec for the cartridge?
There's a longtime member of several shooting forums "Clark" who points out that the 10mm is actually one of the weakest pistol cases because the decision to use a large primer made the web so thin. I personally have done load development for a 40 S&W barrel in a Glock 20 that has been throated to accept cartridges with the bullet seated out to full 10mm length. The small primer pocket of the 40 S&W makes it a fairly strong case compared to the 10mm, just too short. I think it someone made a 10mm case with a small primer pocket it would not be a problem to load it up to the old Norma velocities...but that would only alleviate the concern with the brass. It would still hammer the guns pretty good.

It would make a darned good carbine round...

It would make an awesome carbine round. I've often wondered about the decision to use a LPP in the 10mm. However, if SPP became common it would drive me nuts to have to sort it out.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Those velocities do seem a bit low but the bullets performed really well.

I prefer higher velocity also and typically load my 180 gr stuff to 1225-1250 fps. I've got room to go from 13.3gr up to 13.5 gr of AA#9. If I don't see a reduction in accuracy I may try that out.

Curious what velocity I could push those 200 gr bullets to without making it no fun.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

So disappointing. Another opportunity for a major brand ammunition manufacture to offer a full power 10mm Auto load with a bullet designed for the 10mm Auto.

Speer will offer this weak sauce load for a couple years, but will discontinue it, again, when it fails to sell, again. And then they will blame lack of interest in the cartridge.

Smaller manufacturers will offer a 1200+ fps load with the 200 gr Gold Dot if it becomes available as a loading component. But loading a bullet designed for the .40 S&W to 10mm velocities shows limited returns. Speer could have introduced this bullet designed for the 10mm, to perform best at 1200 fps.

I've carried a 200 gr XTP @ 1250 fps from Underwood or Grizzly Cartridge. It chronos around 1200 from my Glock 20. I have thousands of rounds through my Glock, all of it pretty hot stuff. I don't shoot FBI loads. If I wanted a .40, I would have a .40. The 10mm Auto is a high performance cartridge. SAAMI spec ammo can push a 200 gr bullet to over 1200 fps from a service length barrel. You aren't going to match your splits with the 9mm, but it essentially doubles the smack down the 9mm delivers while still being fairly controllable.

Because it isn't rocket science folks. Plenty of interest in the 10mm Auto, but those of us who use the 10mm Auto, want 10mm Auto performance. The whole point of owning a 10mm Auto is that it is not a .40 S&W. As long as major manufactures like Speer continue to ignore this obvious truth, they will continue to miss out on the market share that comes with being the first. And they will continue to watch manufactures like Doubletap, Underwood, and Grizzly Cartridge capitalize on their failure by offering their projectiles loaded in the full power ammo the vast majority of us with 10mms are gobbling up like Skittles.

 

[Texas10mm]

I'm hoping that Sierra will offer the 180 gr V-Crown that Sig uses in their 10mm loading.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The weakness of the 10mm has nothing to do with the case head web.
It’s the internal case walls run almost parallel to exterior to the case head.

This makes them suspectable to case head blow out from unsupported throats (ie: early Glocks) or if fired out of battery.
Circa 1992, a young soldier acquaintance was desperate for funds post Gulf War, so I purchased his G20 from him at a benevolent price (close to retail).

I had been shooting and loading for a friends Delta Elite as well as my own S&W M1006. I was loading a “book maximum” load of Accurate#7 under a 200gr XTP duplicating the Norma Factory Load. This got right at 1,200fps.

The first one I fired through the Glock left the gun smoking, but nothing appeared out of sync. I thought maybe a primer had pierced. Second shot was normal, third shot stung my hand, blew out the magazine, and I found the slide release/stop lying on the ground. Examination of the fired cases revealed #1 and #3, had blown out the case heads #2 was bulged with the famous Glock “Smiley” face .
I managed to straighten out the slide stop, and reassemble the gun. I spoke with contacts with GEORGIA Arms (owner/partner) and Glock. I was advised not to shoot Norma factory or equivalent (duh!), only FBI Load or equivalent.
I soon sold the Glock. Later too, the 1006 as I needed a competition grade s/a for PPC.
About this time, all the periodicals were replete with admonitions on shooting older ammo through Glocks. Next issues of annual reloading publications had reduced loads.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The weakness of the 10mm has nothing to do with the case head web.
It’s the internal case walls run almost parallel to exterior to the case head.

This makes them suspectable to case head blow out from unsupported throats (ie: early Glocks) or if fired out of battery.
Circa 1992, a young soldier acquaintance was desperate for funds post Gulf War, so I purchased his G20 from him at a benevolent price (close to retail).

I had been shooting and loading for a friends Delta Elite as well as my own S&W M1006. I was loading a “book maximum” load of Accurate#7 under a 200gr XTP duplicating the Norma Factory Load. This got right at 1,200fps.

The first one I fired through the Glock left the gun smoking, but nothing appeared out of sync. I thought maybe a primer had pierced. Second shot was normal, third shot stung my hand, blew out the magazine, and I found the slide release/stop lying on the ground. Examination of the fired cases revealed #1 and #3, had blown out the case heads #2 was bulged with the famous Glock “Smiley” face .
I managed to straighten out the slide stop, and reassemble the gun. I spoke with contacts with GEORGIA Arms (owner/partner) and Glock. I was advised not to shoot Norma factory or equivalent (duh!), only FBI Load or equivalent.
I soon sold the Glock. Later too, the 1006 as I needed a competition grade s/a for PPC.
About this time, all the periodicals were replete with admonitions on shooting older ammo through Glocks. Next issues of annual publications had reduced loads.

That is bizarre because I did a lot of research prior to purchasing my Glock 20 and the consensus I got was that the Glock was among the only 10mms available that didn't rattle itself apart with a steady diet of full power 10mm. Since purchasing my Glock, I have put thousands of rounds of full power 10mm through it. All I shoot through it are 180 gr @ 1300 fps or 200 gr @ 1200 fps. I put a 20 lbs ISMI recoil spring in it and find a KKM Precision barrel helps reduce case bulge, but the stock barrel has a couple thousand rounds through it without issue. The Glock 20 seems to be the most popular 10mm on the market, and there is lots of footage available on Youtube of people shooting a bunch of full power ammo through a Glock 20. Mike McNett worked up his famous Double Tap loads with a stock Glock 20. It is probably safe to say the majority of full power 10mm Auto has been shot through the Glock 20, and I rarely hear of any issues.

There is a thread around here somewhere about chamber support in 10mms where you can see the factory Glock barrel probably has more support than the Delta Elite.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Later, Gen2 onward do appear to have better case support in the feed ramp. However, I’m talking guns made circa 1989-90.
Newer powders, ect. have allowed the 10mm to overcome the stigma it aquired following the downgrading by SAAMI.
Also, the Colts coming out of Hartford at the time weren’t anything to crow about.
At the 1995 NPSC, at Jackson, MS, I witnessed a Colt factory rep tell a coworker/teammate, that his factory Custom Shop polished s/s GoldCup .45 was not a target pistol, but was a “Target Style” pistol, when he complained about the 5” groups it shot at 25yds. He was told if he wanted a match grade pistol, to send it to Jim Clark... with $$$$. He wasn’t humored! Sold Colt, bought a S&W PPC-9 Limited.

Only Colt firearm I’ve ever owned is a Lt Rifle, made by SACO, of Houlton, ME. It’s also a clone of Mel Forbes NewUltraLt Arms. So, not exactly a Colt.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Later, Gen2 onward do appear to have better case support in the feed ramp. However, I’m talking guns made circa 1989-90.
Newer powders, ect. have allowed the 10mm to overcome the stigma it aquired following the downgrading by SAAMI.
Also, the Colts coming out of Hartford at the time weren’t anything to crow about.
At the 1995 NPSC, at Jackson, MS, I witnessed a Colt factory rep tell a coworker/teammate, that his factory Custom Shop polished s/s GoldCup .45 was not a target pistol, but was a “Target Style” pistol, when he complained about the 5” groups it shot at 25yds. He was told if he wanted a match grade pistol, to send it to Jim Clark... with $$$$. He wasn’t humored! Sold Colt, bought a S&W PPC-9 Limited.

Only Colt firearm I’ve ever owned is a Lt Rifle, made by SACO, of Houlton, ME. It’s also a clone of Mel Forbes NewUltraLt Arms. So, not exactly a Colt.

Interesting. I suppose that makes sense. My G20 is a Gen III and I bought it in 2005.

 

[Elkins45]

My very early Glock 20 has a dangerously undercut feeding ramp. Full power loads are a one-time thing because the brass comes out looking pregnant. I will only shoot it with an aftermarket barrel. It’s also cracked, and the slide stop embedded itself in my forehead when it blew.

 

[ATLDave]

Yeah, you really have to pay attention to which Glock-gen barrel is being discussed (or sold to you!) when the subject is 10mm. I have resized some old-design-Glocked brass and had a sharp fold line develop from where the guppy-belly got pushed down by the die! Into the garbage that stuff went!

Current gen barrels seem to be just fine, and I have reloaded range pickups with the tell-tale rectangular firing pin-hole mark without trouble.

 

[CraigC]

All the aforementioned reasons are why the manufacturers are reluctant to offer "full power" (people may also have a misconception about what "full power" is supposed to be) loads for the 10mm. I see Hodgdon's 200gr loads are 1000-1100fps and peak at 36,000psi. Very little data I see exceeds that, most of it with AA #9. Much of that exceeds Accurate's maximum of 12.5gr.

The best bullet for the 10mm is probably the Rimrock 220gr anyway.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

All the aforementioned reasons are why the manufacturers are reluctant to offer "full power" (people may also have a misconception about what "full power" is supposed to be) loads for the 10mm. I see Hodgdon's 200gr loads are 1000-1100fps and peak at 36,000psi. Very little data I see exceeds that, most of it with AA #9. Much of that exceeds Accurate's maximum of 12.5gr.

The best bullet for the 10mm is probably the Rimrock 220gr anyway.

The fact remains that the only 10mm Auto ammo that really sells is the full power stuff. Mike McNett built an entire ammunition company from his garage solely on demand for full power 10mm Auto that he originally handload for himself and his friends. On the success of Double Tap Ammunition, other companies followed. So when you see people with 10mm Autos shooting factory ammo, it's not this watered down crap that the major manufactures offer. It is Double Tap, Underwood, Grizzly Cartridge Co, Buffalo Bore, ect. Very few people who use 10mm Auto have any interest in the FBI spec loads that replicate .40 S&W. A lot of us are like Tim at the Military Arms Channel and won't even touch a .40 S&W without gloves on for fear the "ick" will contaminate us. And if you look at the comments section of any Youtube video where a 10mm Auto is being tested, people will allow the poster to know if they've properly represented the 10mm Auto by letting them know exactly how weak their ammo selection is, usually within the first couple comments. Same with any forums with boards dedicated to the 10mm Auto, like GlockTalk for example. Someone even mentions using FBI-level crap in their Glock 10mm and someone immediately inquires why they didn't just get a .40 or asks if they are aware that better ammo exists. The availability of SAAMI spec full power 10mm Auto ammo, from even a smaller boutique company like Double Tap is 100% responsible for the resurgence of the 10mm Auto. Interest in this cartridge is focused on its performance and if the major ammunition manufactures want to get in on this movement, they are going to have to step up to the plate and offer full power ammo.

To suggest that lack of chamber support in some 10mms is responsible for the complete lack of support given to this cartridge by the mainstream ammunition manufactures ignores the fact that ammunition manufactures offer full power ammo for all sorts of other high pressure cartridges. SAAMI spec for the 10mm Auto is 37500 PSI. The 9x19 +P is 38000 PSI. All sorts of +P 9mm on the market. The .357 SIG runs at 40000 PSI. Not much watered down 9mm level .357 SIG on the market. These cartridges are available in the same gun makes and models as the 10mm Auto and still have ample support in the ammunition market despite the possibility of a poorly supported chamber.

 

[IdaD]

Is the 180 grain Federal Vital Shok the only full house 10mm ammo that's available from a major manufacturer?

 

[Elkins45]

All the aforementioned reasons are why the manufacturers are reluctant to offer "full power" (people may also have a misconception about what "full power" is supposed to be) loads for the 10mm. I see Hodgdon's 200gr loads are 1000-1100fps and peak at 36,000psi. Very little data I see exceeds that, most of it with AA #9. Much of that exceeds Accurate's maximum of 12.5gr.

The best bullet for the 10mm is probably the Rimrock 220gr anyway.

I have an Accurate pamphlet from the mid 90s that lists 13.5 as the max IIRC. If I ever try that it will be with new Starline brass and I will leave it where it lands.

Is the 180 grain Federal Vital Shok the only full house 10mm ammo that's available from a major manufacturer?

The Winchester 175 Silvertip is pretty close if you can find it.

 

[ATLDave]

I’m pretty sure Accurate now lists 13.5 as the max for 180’s.

 

[Elkins45]

I’m pretty sure Accurate now lists 13.5 as the max for 180’s.

This was for 200s IIRC. It should be noted that some believe current production #9 burns faster than it did when that data was published.

 

[ATLDave]

Interesting. I got into reloading "only" 9-10 years ago. I have occasionally read people complain about Western/Accurate for having changed up formulations over the years. I think little or nothing has changed during my time in the "game," so I don't have that experience with them. Interesting to hear about one of the possible specific instances of it.