Spending $$$ on guns now is dumb. You should be contributing to pro-2A politicians.

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Every time you buy a new gun or ammo YOU ARE SUPPORTING RKBA. Gun and ammo manufacurers have lobbyist who work not only for them but you also. Manufacurers don't just make products till they are outlawed, they fight to keep their bussiness alive and make a profit. Its good to donate time and money to RKBA organizations, but don't think buying guns you expect to be banned wrong. If gun manufacurers see a product selling very well I dout they will stand idly by to see them banned.
 
Yup. Including saying "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers because of some 'future ban' instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause, and shouldn't complain when your right to arms is restricted."

Interesting!

This is pretty much a RKBA version of Peter Singer's arguments for the need for everyone to donate to charity, in his 1971 paper, "Famine, Affluence, and Morality."

For example, take this, one of Singer's passages:
"...if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it"

To do any less would be morally indefensible.

The only obvious difference is that the donation to charity is retroactive, while donating to a campaign would be preventative. The principle of the matter still applies.


Every time you buy a new gun or ammo YOU ARE SUPPORTING RKBA. Gun and ammo manufacurers have lobbyist who work not only for them but you also. Manufacurers don't just make products till they are outlawed, they fight to keep their bussiness alive and make a profit. Its good to donate time and money to RKBA organizations, but don't think buying guns you expect to be banned wrong. If gun manufacurers see a product selling very well I dout they will stand idly by to see them banned.

In the Singer paper, he considers UNICEF / reputable charitable organizations to be the most efficacious method for donating. Your reply makes me wonder: how could we actually determine which route would have the most "bang for the buck?" the NRA/GOA or similar organizations? Political candidates?

I agree that contributing is necessary and the morally correct thing to do, but I would like others' opinions on how this goal is most efficiently accomplished.
 
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Talk is cheap, leadership by example my friend. Frankly I'm skeptical your swallowing your own medicine, and even if you are I'm doing what ever the hell I want with my $$$. I don't care if I'm "dead weight", good on you if are but just call me skeptical.
 
I'm another that has long viewed buying new guns as at least related to activism and not simply from a standpoint of pumping sales or import numbers.

Our rate of lawful firearms ownership dwarfs that in effect at the time of the UK's handgun surrender and compensation scheme. The more our numbers grow the less likely anything similar will happen. Every new sale / NICS ping / CHL issuance is one more reason an astute politician won't insert his necktie into the meat grinder.

The numbers aren't there yet and may never be if we don't get the youth involved but buying new if one can't fund both doesn't strike me as being dead weight.

I suppose a case might be made that those that both refrain from contributions and obsess over "off paper" purchases might be "dead weight" but their numbers are, I believe, small and most use "off paper" legal purchases as an adjunct anyway.

I've seen a very few opine that "off paper" purchases are good as no one knows where they are. Perhaps this is true but I'd also submit its potential for irony exceeds that of "Catch 22": the very act of remaining invisible increases the liklihood that the invisibility will be needed.

If the VPC is actively trying to reduce our apparent numbers (PDF), I'll take it as an article of faith that it behooves us to do the opposite. I'll ask my dealer to phone in my 4473s even though he doesn't have to due to the CHL.
 
What is your call to action?

Indeed. The rest of THR is all "What gun should I buy"? Instead, I'm saying, "Put off buying the guns because you think they're going to be banned. Contribute instead!"

Hawk gets it:
I suppose a case might be made that those that both refrain from contributions and obsess over "off paper" purchases might be "dead weight" but their numbers are, I believe, small and most use "off paper" legal purchases as an adjunct anyway.

I'm of the opinion that people buying off-paper firearms "because of the coming ban" are simply using the election year to justify their compulsive spending habits. They just want a new gun and could care less about RKBA.
 
They just want a new gun and could care less about RKBA.
I think thats a bit of an oversimplification.

There are plenty of staunchly pro RKBA folk that honestly don't believe that giving money to pro gun politicians, the NRA, the GOA or any other group of people that support RKBA is going to do a darned thing.

I do see your point, and that is that we can't just sit by passively and "let" the antis run roughshod over us ... but I'm not 100% convinced that political action will do anything anymore.


So, IF you DON'T already own an EBR or two, I'd rather see you buy one just in case than send that money to a politician.

Now if you DO already have an EBR or two, than please reconsider adding another and instead donate to the cause.



On a side note, As for donating to Ron Paul ... I fail to see how giving money to an honorable, decent, honest man that hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of being president is in any way helping the cause as much as giving Bushmaster or Rock River Arms or one of the other EBR manufacturers more money to lobby with would.
 
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jlbraun,

I see what you are saying but the bottom line, literally, is that in our current form of society, money talks and money makes the world go around. Guns and ammo are BIG business and no antigun politician or harebrained legislation is going to seriously affect it until it isn't big business. It's the same reason tobacco is here to stay, same reason alcohol is here to stay, same reason drugs are here to stay, same reason porno is here to stay, same reason mcdonalds is here to stay, etc. etc. etc. As long as people can get filthy rich at it, whatever it may be, it won't go away.

So I disagree and encourage everyone to go out and buy, buy, buy.
 
Quote "if you're compulsively buying AR lowers because of some 'future ban' instead of giving that money to RKBA orgs, you're dead weight to the RKBA cause, and shouldn't complain when your right to arms is restricted."


Guess I need to change my spending habits, I will get FAL lowers instead, The reason I am "dead weight" is because I cant find a group to give to, the NRA's record on EBR's, and machine guns is less than stellar, GOA seem to be alarmists but I plan to join them soon. It is my choice how much I donate and I prefer to get firearms instead and add to the NCIS tally which like the others said helps us, more guns sold less the politicians will want to get rid of them (at least the politicians who know they get voted in). If anyone should get money on these points it should be Cato as they are handling Heller (If Iam wrong correct and put in right organization).
 
While we are on topic - what is the ACLU's stance on the 2nd ammendment? I'm not particularly a fan of the ACLU for various, personal reasons.

Thanks!
 
For all you guy's who can't stand giving money to the NRA/GOA/etc., how about this suggestion. For every message (or at least every 5 messages) you post on a pro-gun/preaching-to-the-choir internet forum, you should send at least one message/ make a phone call/write a letter to a politician/newspaper/etc. Is that asking too much?????
 
WOOHOO!!! Made it in before the LOCK! :p

jlbraun wrote:
Spending $$$ on guns now is dumb. You should be contributing to pro-2A politicians
I could say, spending money on politicians that have no chance of winning is dumb. You should be spending your money on AR lowers, or..oh, wait, nevermind--where you spend your money is YOUR business!

Your money is spent much better that way.
Yeah, at least you'd have something to show for it like an AR!

If you bought $5000 of guns, ammo, and accessories this year but you gave a measly $100 to RKBA orgs, your priorities are WAY misplaced!
:rolleyes:--Seriously? Let's look in the mirror before questioning misplaced priorities. You've got your priorities on display in your SIGNATURE!

Yes, this is America and you have a right to express your OPINION as I do mine. Neither of us has the right to IMPOSE that opinion on the other.
 
You've got your priorities on display in your SIGNATURE!

So what? THR is about RKBA and RKBA alone. The reason I have my sig is to show that even some of "teh evul libruls" like me support RKBA.

I think that people should be able to buy M240s or M2HBs at a reasonable cost new in box under the NFA. I think the NFA tax stamp should go away. I think that the NFA should not apply to any weapon currently standard individual issue of the US Military - meaning that you should be able to buy an M16/M4 or M249 SAW or LAW or grenade with just the NICS check. I think that the GCA should go away. I think that the import ban should go away. I think the "sporting purposes" language should go away.

And you need people like me to fight gun control, you can't go it alone. Even though you disagree with my politics, you still need me as far as RKBA is concerned.

And that's the problem. Some people like you think that you should disown liberals like me from RKBA efforts because of my (to you) misplaced "priorities". Do this, and you will LOSE.

I posted my opinion. People who go out compulsively buying their ninth AR lower because of "the upcoming ban" (I call this the "shortsighted I-got-mine mentality") instead of taking some of that same money and contributing to RKBA organizations (or taking antis shooting) are dead weight being dragged by those that are doing work and contributing to protect and expand RKBA.
 
You have a point indeed and I do not do enough of the latter. I have definitely bought my share of guns/ammo this last year, but not enough contributing. Thanks for making me feel guilty about it. Maybe that is what I need to get off my duff and write a check. :)
 
Maybe we are out there buying our 4th AR for when your RKBA fight fails and they try to come and take our guns away.

The 2nd ammendment states:
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

We have already breached the line of what our founding fathers defined as a "free state" so far WE don't even know what a "free state" should be. But I do know that the day they try and make me turn in my guns is the day I pack my bags and find a spot on God's green earth where I can be left alone.
 
If the SHTF our guns and ammo will come in handy. If the Government come for our guns, we are SOL. :scrutiny:

Activism is the only way to keep our guns away from the Government.
 
And you need people like me to fight gun control, you can't go it alone. Even though you disagree with my politics, you still need me as far as RKBA is concerned.
You're absolutely right and you made my point. We see things differently! You waste your money on Ron Paul or whatever cause, and I'll waste my money on ARs. Let's just not go name-calling and telling each other how they ought to live if we disagree.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! ;)

By the way, GREAT idea on the AR lower. I don't have a complete rifle in the budget right now but could swing a lower or two for after the Billary ban!
 
You waste your money on Ron Paul or whatever cause

Considering that Ron Paul is the least of my donations this year to the GOA, SAF, and NRA, that's completely specious.

And when "Billary" tries to push through an outright confiscatory ban on lowers, realize it's people like you that wasted money on ARs that allowed it to happen. Thanks for nothing.
 
This makes me realize that we should start our own damn RKBA group, and just use all of our funding to buy adspace in magazines for Oleg's posters.
 
So if they decide in the end that guns should be limited, or guns should not be owned or carried by any non-police/military/LE person, aka civillian,
I will disagree.
Who will stand beside me and fight?
Or at least just resist?
 
I doubt you'll know who will fight with you until the time comes. People I've known all my life as second amendment supporters would fold in a heartbeat given government pressure. I know others that would gather up to fight.
 
There is no politician that has a chance of actually winning the election that is fighting to protect our rights. Its really not about how much money you give to a RKBA org, its about how many people you sign up as members. Ron Paul and Fred Thompson are great, but if you think they are going to win you are wrong, sorry. I would LOVE for them to win, but it just isnt going to happen.

The government doesnt care how much money the NRA has, they mainly care about how many members they have and how many votes they influence, that is why the AARP is such a powerful lobby.

Buy guns, recruit others to join RKBA orgs, and try to sway the vote. The thing that hurts us the most is that we have to many RKBA orgs that cant agree on anything and we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves to mount an effective defense.

The politicians know many gun owners are single issue voters and it scares the crap out of them, if we would all band together and mount a joint attack and effective lobbying campaign I dont think it would matter who was in office, they would think much harder about pissing gun owners off.
 
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