Springfield Armory takes aim at Sig's 365

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm transitioning to RDS on as many pistols that will take them.

re: hunting the dot. The answer to that is muscle memory. Keep drawing and acquiring enough times and you sill start to index and get on the dot right away.

re: optics cuts, if your pistol doesn't have one these folks can do it. They also sell adapters (in case you wanted to switch from an RMSc to an RMR for example):

https://www.mapleleaffirearms.com/
 
1KPerDay said:
Thanks for the very courteous reply. Interesting... because his more recent videos are much more evangelical toward defensive/duty use of RDS on pistols. The video above was 6 years ago. It’d be interesting to see a refresh.
Click to expand...
Oh, I’m sure. He’s grown as shooter and he’s evolved past initially trying the concept out. I’m positive that he’s gotten better with them if he continued to train with them. He put the work in to become better with them.

However that’s kinda my point, which is because he was an established shooter already he basically had to retrain himself in order to become proficient with them where he was already fast and accurate with iron sights.

That beyond the initial purchase price, getting the cuts, fitting it, buying batteries and so on he wasn’t ready to run with it more or less as is. It was required that he retrain himself when he was already an extremely good shooter. He didn’t get immediate gains.

My impressions were that I gained the ability to hit a little better at farther distance (>100 yards in some cases) and in poor light.

However as far as laying them in there at 25 and under I was much quicker using irons and just as accurate.

And Burris FF while a good basic RDS (I have one) would not be a good choice for a defensive pistol IMO. The RMR is actually durable and reliable enough and maybe the new aimpoint ACRO. that remains to be seen.
Click to expand...
Sure, I agree. It was just to try the concept.

I didn’t think it added much for me at that time and with that current level of tech and I figured I’d revisit it at some point.

Think of it like cell phones. At one point in the 1980’s they came in small suitcases or it was like a pay phone bolted to the center console of the vehicle. It was huge. The smallest ones were like two red bricks taped together. It enabled you to make a phone call. That’s it.

No internet, no apps, no calendar, no calculator, no notes, no music, no videos, no camera, no ability to store pictures and videos ... just the ability to make a phone call. So I imagine at some point the technology will improve with these as well.
 
Last edited:
1KPerDay said:
Can’t wait until my RDS can correct my poor shooting :D
Click to expand...
;)
You were using Aaron Cowan as an example. By his own admission he was a little faster and more accurate.

If you look at the groups initially it’s clear than instead of improving his shooting it was messing him up a bit.

I’ll get back to the Springfield Armory Hellcat as this discussion will just be somewhat circular and we'll end up chasing our tails before we agree to disagree, but those are my main points.
 
Times change. Us older folks consider a G26 or similar (for me even a G29) a breeze to IWB. Nowadays I hear repeatedly these are too bulky. Simple as the nominal or norm has changed. Same thing is happening with sights. Normal sights work just fine until something new comes along that everyone gets used to, then they don’t. I have no problem with people ensnared with red dots. Will probably even spend the extra 30 to get that version of Hellcat, but can’t see right now ever using one on that small a gun. A larger range or competition gun, maybe.
 
Browning said:
;)
You were using Aaron Cowan as an example. By his own admission he was a little faster and more accurate.

If you look at the groups initially it’s clear than instead of improving his shooting it was messing him up a bit.

I’ll get back to the Springfield Armory Hellcat as this discussion will just be somewhat circular and we'll end up chasing our tails before we agree to disagree, but those are my main points.
Click to expand...
i was trying for a friendly joke... guess not.
 
FWIW lots of bullseye shooters prefer red dots. Here’s my limited experience. The DW is a very accurate gun with a lovely 3.25 lb trigger. FOR ME, the RDS is much easier to shoot accurately. And more quickly.
96901A69-D2AE-4A5E-9CD5-C97A689D6B52.jpeg F0099947-3B97-43F5-AFE4-E2E6C1ED1427.jpeg
 
Pistol dot sights are something I need to buy someday. I am terrible at shooting the 3-dot stock sights on seemingly every semi-auto manufactured these days, and it's just simply easier to line up 2 objects (dot+target) than 3 (rear+front+target). The target posted above doesn't surprise me at all.

Just got to put down the money to do it... and fight the urge for a Sub 2K that could be used to buy a slide and pistol dot instead...
 
Last edited:
I am so confused. I thought the thread was about the new Hellcat and 365. Ok, it is about RFD's. I guess I am the odd man out. I want a Micro 9mm that is sleek, small, easy to conceal, and reliable. Do not want a RFD, scope or accessory rail. I want to reduce bulk, not add to it.
I get it, for a large defensive weapon. Heck, maybe they will even put RFD's on a Beretta Pico. If so, I think I will pass. Just put my money into more ammo for training.
Heck, I never bought into the Laser thing either. Actually bought one, quickly took it off and used it to exercise my dog. She loves to chase the little red bean around a field at dark.
Besides, I do not want to trash all my holsters. I guess you would have to add that to the cost of one as well.
 
Last edited:
RFD to me is Rural Free Delivery and RMR is Rocky Mountain Reloading ... but I am working on all that. ;)

I assume that RDS stands for Red Dot Sight, but RMSc? <sigh>

Nah ... I'll return such Optics Subjects at a later time when I may be actually considering buying a pistol designed to accommodate that kind of glass. :)

===

That said, the more that I look at the Hellcat pistol and details about same, the more I am drawn to it.

I certainly would not be an early-adopter (avoid versions that end in ".0" is also good advice for some things other than software ;)) and I have several familiar, comfortable, accurate and reliable carry pistols from which to choose ... but ... if I were to buy a Hellcat it would definitely be one cut for optics even if I did not immediately spring for one of those expensive little RMRs.

<chuckle> It just struck me that I could use funds from an RMD to buy an RMR. :)
 
GBExpat said:
RFD to me is Rural Free Delivery and RMR is Rocky Mountain Reloading ... but I am working on all that. ;)

I assume that RDS stands for Red Dot Sight, but RMSc? <sigh>

Nah ... I'll return such Optics Subjects at a later time when I may be actually considering buying a pistol designed to accommodate that kind of glass. :)

===

That said, the more that I look at the Hellcat pistol and details about same, the more I am drawn to it.

I certainly would not be an early-adopter (avoid versions that end in ".0" is also good advice for some things other than software ;)) and I have several familiar, comfortable, accurate and reliable carry pistols from which to choose ... but ... if I were to buy a Hellcat it would definitely be one cut for optics even if I did not immediately spring for one of those expensive little RMRs.

<chuckle> It just struck me that I could use funds from an RMD to buy an RMR. :)
Click to expand...

That was funny GB, gave me a early morning chuckle.
 
Last edited:
GBExpat said:
RFD to me is Rural Free Delivery and RMR is Rocky Mountain Reloading ... but I am working on all that. ;)

I assume that RDS stands for Red Dot Sight, but RMSc? <sigh>

Nah ... I'll return such Optics Subjects at a later time when I may be actually considering buying a pistol designed to accommodate that kind of glass. :)

===

That said, the more that I look at the Hellcat pistol and details about same, the more I am drawn to it.

I certainly would not be an early-adopter (avoid versions that end in ".0" is also good advice for some things other than software ;)) and I have several familiar, comfortable, accurate and reliable carry pistols from which to choose ... but ... if I were to buy a Hellcat it would definitely be one cut for optics even if I did not immediately spring for one of those expensive little RMRs.

<chuckle> It just struck me that I could use funds from an RMD to buy an RMR. :)
Click to expand...

RMD?

:neener:

 
I bought a Glock G19 Gen 5 MOS and mounted the Burris Fastfire III. It's the exact same width as the slide and as compact as practical. I also had to install suppressor sights to provide back up sights.

I shot better with it in matches and was able to get much better groups from the bench (if you're into that sort of thing...).

But I hated it for carry. The giant front sight made it slower to draw and the sight just made it feel a bunch bulkier. But that's just me. I replaced it with a smaller overall M&P40c for carry. If I was going to go back to the G19 for carry, then I would remove the optics.

I'm not going to argue that irons are better than optics for CCW for anyone other than me in that specific application.

The Hellcat with a specific optic may just be the cat's meow for fast defensive shooting.
 
I would like to see one with the RFd whatever sights in a holster for CCW. And how much much weight etc. We are now adding ammo and a larger sight. I think, if these things are important to me, then I will just take my SR9C, carry a 17 round magazine and have it cut for the sights. Extremely mild shooter, large capacity, and a sub compact. Build quality is excellent.
If we are going for great carry, there there is IMO nothing better than a Kahr CM9 in size, weight, length. Again excellent build quality. (just saw a video of the PM9 going 40,000 rds). And now that mag guts has the new guts for a extended round making the 7 round mag to 8+1 hard to beat.


kQFuSIQ.jpg
.
 
Last edited:
Browning said:
I never mentioned Trijicon RMR. I was talking about some of the drawbacks of micro red dot pistol sights of which RMR is just one, you heard “RMR”.

On the scratched up lens part I was talking about the Shield RMSc red dot sight. You know? The one that they’ve been sending out in that media pack with the pistol?

Do a search on that optic.

With the Trijicon RMR it will hang over a tiny amount on the Hellcat. Not flush.


You mean this? Already saw it when it first came out.



Watch the entire thing, check out his groups on both, check the timer on both ... come to you own conclusion.

He’s faster on irons and more accurate on irons.

Can there be some advantages for some people? Sure. I’m not someone who has trouble seeing my sights ( ... yet). I’ve played with them, I’m not on board.

At some point the price will drop and the technology will undoubtedly improve. Of that I have no doubt. It’s just not there yet.
Click to expand...
update: 20K round review on RMR type 2. Multiple drops on concrete.
 
Ugly. I like the P365 as a CCW gun that I don't really care about. Shoots fine. The Hellcat would have to be something special to interest me in it.
And be priced sanely. SA doesn't do that with the XD guns, so I would be shocked if they would do it with the Hellcat.
 
hemiram said:
Ugly. I like the P365 as a CCW gun that I don't really care about. Shoots fine. The Hellcat would have to be something special to interest me in it.
And be priced sanely. SA doesn't do that with the XD guns, so I would be shocked if they would do it with the Hellcat.
Click to expand...
Under $550 MSRP isn’t sane? Am I understanding you?
 
Trey Veston said:
Yeah, I was also confused by his logic... They are going for $495, which is less than the P365. They have higher capacity, and so far, no random and catastrophic failures like the P365 CONTINUES to suffer from.

But, yeah, I think the P365 looks better, so there's that...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess I find that comment surprising and my question is an honest one. I wonder if we’ve misunderstood him.

We all have different tolerances on price though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Sammael94
  • Locked
Springfield's Hellcat carry pistol
2 3 4 5
Replies
120
Views
10K
FL-NC
FL-NC
M
  • Locked
New SA Hellcat variant
Replies
19
Views
977
LeftyRed
LeftyRed
S
  • Locked
Looked at Them All; Chose the SIG 365 XL
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
WheelGunMan
WheelGunMan
P
  • Locked
  • Poll
Need tie breaker: Springfield Armory 1911-A1 vs. Sig GSR.
Replies
15
Views
2K
Pointman1776
P
A
  • Locked
Springfield 1911, "Loaded Operator:" best all around 1911?
2
Replies
25
Views
7K
Top_Notch
T
Back
Top