Squib worries.

[JWH321]

I have never had a squib round.

But recently, I have been re-loading some very mild rounds for my daughter to use a the range. I've been using Tite Group in everything. I load only 9mm.

I have backed off from my usual 4.1 - 4.2 grains to about 3.8 (minimum recommended). I have maintained the OAL at 1.113. I load plated 115 gr RNs. I have a very mild taper crimp. My usual load has been perfect for me -- I've put about a thousand through the 938.

Last range trip, one of the folks that I shoot with suggested he would be afraid of squibs with such a light load. That led to a bunch of horror stories about barrel explosions and loss of fingers, hands, and collateral damage to everyone within a half mile.

HOW DOES ONE RECOGNIZE AND REACT TO A SQUIB?

 

[FROGO207]

When using a 9MM autoloader the first problem would be failure to eject the fired brass. At that point I would look at the UNLOADED barrel to make sure it is clear. I use a cleaning rod and deem it OK if the rod pushes all the way through the barrel. Then even lower power loaded rounds you make might not push the bullet out of the barrel, that is the squib. To answer your squib question about how a really light or no recoil, unusually quiet round when fired, a missing hole in the target, and other abnormal things would cause me to suspect a squib and check for it. Be aware that this can and has happened to factory ammo as well. Do not be scared of this just be aware it could happen and when things don't feel/sound normal check it out.

Also teach her what to expect so she does not pull the trigger again before checking for a squib, that is where you can get into trouble.

 

[thefish]

I have loaded down to 3.4 grains of tight group in 9mm with no squib. And it cycled the action on my m&p shield. My go to practice load is 3.6 grains.

As far as recognizing a squib, I think the first suspect is that it doesn't feel or sound right. The second would be no hole in the paper.

Always keep the gun pointed down range for a second or 5 to make sure you don't have a hang fire.

If you suspect one, unload the gun, and see if you have a squib stuck with a cleaning rod.

If so, push the bullett out with a brass dowel or other tool. I'm sure others more experienced with squibs than i will have a better suggestion on the method to remove the bullet.

 

[osteodoc08]

Ive had 2 squibs that I can think of. Both 41 mag and both loaded in a Dillon 550. Not sure how they happened, other than no powder.

A squib load in and of itself is not the dangerous part. Its firing another round with an obstructed barrel is the issue.

 

[Walkalong]

You should be fine. The 9MM case is small so powder position isn't as critical, and that isn't terribly light.

Here is an interesting test I did on .45 ACP.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523172

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Since you're using the recommended starting load and the rounds cycle your slide I wouldn't be worried about a squib load.

How to recognize a squib?
I have shot only 1 squib load ever and it was quite evident something was wrong. The report was very different and there was no recoil to speak of. That was in a revolver, a semi-auto is even more evident, like said above the slide will probably not cycle and the brass not eject.

 

[berettaprofessor]

I was just recently trying my first 38sp reloads and I was trying to reload light loads for an airweight. With 4.1gr of IMR7625, the third 125gr Rainier got stuck in a S&W Model 15, 4 inch barrel. The previous two rounds had acted normally but this one had a more psssst sound than a report and I wasn't sure I saw a target hole...it did cycle to the next round but I checked it before pulling the trigger and am darned glad I did. The question with your daughter is a) will she pay attention to the round report and b) otherwise, how many rounds should you try before you are confident all will act normally. 50? 100? 500?

BTW, I found out it is much easier to drive a squib out the rest of the way forward than it is to push it backwards into the forcing cone

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm thinking the same as others. If it squibs, it probably won't cycle the action and feed another round.
I've had 1. I seated a bullet on an empty case and the primer was enough to push the bullet about 1/2" into the barrel.

 

[horseman1]

What if someone has installed a weaker recoil spring? Could it then be possible to cycle the action and yet still have a squib? What about an odd oversized/undersized or otherwise out of spec bullet in addition to the above combination?

Just wondering... I havent been doing this for very long, but I think about these things as I imagine things that can do wrong.

 

[sexybeast]

I have backed off from my usual 4.1 - 4.2 grains to about 3.8 (minimum recommended). I have maintained the OAL at 1.113. I load plated 115 gr RNs. I have a very mild taper crimp. My usual load has been perfect for me -- I've put about a thousand through the 938.

Last range trip, one of the folks that I shoot with suggested he would be afraid of squibs with such a light load. That led to a bunch of horror stories about barrel explosions and loss of fingers, hands, and collateral damage to everyone within a half mile

First off, he has no idea what he's talking about, don't listen to him anymore. You can load as little as 1.0gr of titegroup and the bullet will still exit the barrel, may even hit the target!. But won't cycle the gun!
Since you reload its a very good chance that someday you will have a squib. Everyone I know and even those with the best equipment can get them.
The ones I have had are equipment related. The powder measure does not "re-charge" and drops little to no powder. Some Dillon's have a Powder check die/station just for this reason. I now clean, polish, and lube my powder measure every thousand rounds. Nothing says "fun" on an friday night having to pull three hundred rounds because they "may" be suspect.
I've seen lots of squibs and double charges on the firing line during competitions. I'd rather have a squib.
Anytime the round does not go off weather you hear a small pop or not you have to check the case. If there is no bullet in it when you eject then stop right there! Lots of shooters including myself have a brass squib rod and plastic hammer in their range bags. And they get used!

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I have fired one squib, it was in a 380 and had no powder (not my reloads). My first clue was not seeing the bullet impact the target (comes with follow thru). Then I saw the case was jammed.

 

[Steve C]

Squibs are caused by either no powder or powder that fails to burn either from contamination or insufficient density as can be the case using H110 or W296. In either case you will usually have a bullet stuck in the barrel an inch or so driven there by the force of the primer along with any unburned powder if that caused the squib.

A semi auto is most forgiving with a squib since they will not cycle the action BUT if you are in the habit of automatically racking the round in a FTF situation and not checking your barrel before shooting the next round you could then cycle in a good load that when fired could result in a damaged barrel.

Squibs are most hazardous in DA revolvers since the next pull of the trigger will bring a new round into battery. A shooter that doesn't inspect the barrel after an unusual discharge or lack thereof can wind up firing a round through an obstructed barrel.

 

[BCRider]

What if someone has installed a weaker recoil spring? Could it then be possible to cycle the action and yet still have a squib? What about an odd oversized/undersized or otherwise out of spec bullet in addition to the above combination?

Just wondering... I havent been doing this for very long, but I think about these things as I imagine things that can do wrong.

It's good to ask just so you know.

As mentioned a few times already a true squib where the powder does not ignite at all will simply not cycle the action. Also it'll make a very noticeably lighter and softer "pop" instead of even the muted "BANG" you get from softer loads.

If by some chance someone had swapped recoil springs to something softer then you would not want to be running normal full power ammo. The softer spring would not absorb all the recoil energy and the gun would be beating itself up when the slide hits the rear travel limit instead of just a bump. Over time such behaviour will lead to parts breaking.

So assuming that you have a regular recoil spring and shoot these lighter loads what you will be more likely to see is a shorter and softer ejection path. And if the loads are weak enough then you'll see more stove pipes and the slide may not lock back consistently on the last round.

I would not worry about a lot of this if you're only using the minimum powder level. Especially with Tite Group it won't be a concern other than the possible weak ejection and maybe some more frequent stove pipe jams. Tite Group is very tolerant of small loads that merely dust the inside of the casings. Cowboy action shooters that shoot .38Spl are using down to as low as 3 gns and the rounds all still go BANG with 100% reliability. And there's a lot more room for the powder to wander around in a .38Spl casing than in your 9mm cases.

 

[rsrocket1]

The best way to know what a squib feels like in an autoloader is to load up a round with a primer, bullet and no powder and shoot it. It will feel pretty much like a dry fire. You not only get to experience a squib to know what it feels like, but you'll also know how to pound out the bullet with a brass range rod and a hammer which you should always carry in your range bag. The best way is to take the barrel out of the gun and drive the bullet back towards the chamber because it is probably closer to the chamber than the muzzle. Tap the rod lightly many times rather than one bit whack.

Sort of like teaching someone how to change a tire at home rather than on the freeway at night in the rain.

A light load will stop cycling the action way before it fails to drive the bullet out of the barrel.

 

[arspeukinen]

I have had three squibs with 9mm/.45 handloads. One said "pling!", the other two were not audible enough. In all three occasions the bullet got stuck in the rifling and the next cartridge would not chamber completely.
I first did a DA pull, then the tap rack routine and noticed the slide was not in battery. If it had gone fully in battery I'd now have one or two broken pistols.

 

[Walkalong]

Could it then be possible to cycle the action and yet still have a squib?

While unlikely, and I haven't seen it, it can happen according to people here who's opinion I value. Check the link in my previous post where I tested some very light loads.

 

[gahunter12]

What if someone has installed a weaker recoil spring? Could it then be possible to cycle the action and yet still have a squib? What about an odd oversized/undersized or otherwise out of spec bullet in addition to the above combination?

Lots of guys reduce recoil springs to get super light loads to function semi auto handguns for competition. Titegroup, Clays, and WST are very popular powders for this style of reloads. There's tons of talk about 3.1-3.2gr of TG being used in 9mm with 11lb springs for race guns over on XD Talk, and Brian Enos forum.

My go to load for my IDPA guns in 40s&w is 3.7gr of WST under 180gr pills. I have to run 13lb springs to get my slide speeds up fast enough to double or triple tap. Like others have said, if the gun is factory, and functions properly, you should be good.

I have had 1 squib out of 90k+ rounds when I first started reloading. There was no doubt about it being a squib. I had burnt primer material all over my arms, and no recoil. It sounded like a HP pellet gun. Over the last 4 years I have seen at least 1 dozen squibs at matches. Every squib was recognized my other shooters, and the SO was able to safely stop the shooter.

 

[berettaprofessor]

. The best way is to take the barrel out of the gun and drive the bullet back towards the chamber because it is probably closer to the chamber than the muzzle.

No! I did that and it hung up in the chamber. Had to pound the squib out the barrel exit.

 

[deadeye dick]

I went ot H-D and bought a 8" brass rod used on the old toilet tank float. Cheap and works.

 

[jmorris]

3.2-3.3 grains of TG with a 147 grain plated bullet is a common 9mm "minor" load for gun games.