Starting Over With a 22

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We each have our own goals and skill-sets.

Dare I suggest those of a Bullseye shooter may be different from someone pursuing Run and Gun or Rattle-Battle???

Myself,,,, I'll never be able to split a playing card in half, but I thoroughly enjoy placing multiple rounds in the kill zone at a pace that has been known to occasionally ruffle the feathers of some RO's,,,, :evil:

Point is, if you find something that enjoyable to you, you'll stick with it longer/have more fun, regardless of caliber.

Kinda something you'll have to figure out on your own,,,
 
200-400 rounds per month is a pretty good amount of practice. If you go to the range and do the same thing every time you will not get better, and you may just be reinforcing bad habits. Watch some training video. Try a different grip. Find someone with experience to watch you shoot. It's not the quantity of of rounds down range that leads to improvement, its the quality
 
Jonesy is correct about quality vs quantity. I find it easier to be disciplined and focused using a platform that isn't conducive to putting lots of lead downrange quickly. I'm not credentialed or awesome, but here's what worked for me. I used a Single Six. It forces you to be deliberate. I wanted to be able to shoot offhand at 25 yards. I couldn't keep six on the paper. Move in to seven yards. Work on technique, grip, trigger, sights, until your groups are respectable. Then step back to 10 yards, and so forth.
That worked for me again when I switched over to center fire snubbies. Still looking for a good fix now for my eyes, just didn't appreciate what I had.
 
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Thanks for all the replies.

I was pretty set on going the 22 route but now I'm not sure.

I do also have an iTarget 9mm laser trainer that I could use daily for free if I just went the 9mm route.
 
I wouldn't let anyone talk me out of the .22 pistol. It's always good to have a .22.
My first pistol was a 1911 in .45 ACP. I also bought a .22 conversion for it. I probably shot a couple hundred rounds of .22 for every round of .45 shot. It was a great way to practice and learn how to shoot my pistol because it pointed and felt the same as shooting the .45 except for recoil.
That's why I suggested a full size M&P22 earlier. It will feel and point the same as a full size M&P9. If your budget will allow it, I would suggest getting both. You'll be glad you did later. I bought one of each and I'm glad that I did.
 
If you are still a mediocre shooter perhaps you need to try a different pistol? It may be that the grip is wrong for you.
Also, you said you shoot by yourself at the range. I would suggest that one day when you go to the range that you ask one of the range masters to watch you shoot and see if they can pick up anything that you may be doing wrong or any bad habits you may or may not have.

I would also recommend a quality .22 for cheap practice, even if it doesn’t match the grip and feel of your 9mm. The one thing it will do for you, if nothing else, is get you to the range for some time for yourself.
 
Two thoughts as I (admittedly too) briefly perused this thread:

1) As an instructor and handgunning mentor, I always advise that the first handgun a person buys should be TWO handguns; one being their desired application handgun, and the other a target style 22LR pistol (Ruger Mark IV). The advantages in developing fundamentals using a low recoil, high precision 22LR target style pistol are invaluable and increase both the extent of skill development and the pace of development. I very rarely take a handgun to the practice range without taking a 22LR pistol with me, and almost always start my drill practice with the 22LR - often my performance with the 22LR will dictate what I work on for the day.

2) 2-4 trips per month, expending 100rnds per trip is ample practice. Excessive, to be honest. This is an instance where “practice doen’t make perfect, PERFECT practice makes perfect. If you’re burning that much powder without sufficiently developing skills, then it’s your practice program which is broken, not your life schedule or bank balance. How are you structuring your practice time? How much structured dry fire practice are you doing?
 
Go
Hello Everyone

I've been shooting pistols and revolvers for 3-4 years, I took one formal training class when I first got started. Since then have just shot at the range by myself. I haven't really gotten much better, and I am still basically a mediocre shooter.

Over the last year I sold all my pistols while trying to start a business, and only kept 2 revolvers and my AR.

I'm ready to buy another pistol primarily for home defense and almost bought an M&P 9mm.

Then I started to think about the amount of training I can actually do with it, given that funds are still very limited and our toddler takes up almost all my free time.

The most I can possibly get to the range is 2-4 times a month, and if I'm shooting 9mm I can really only afford to shoot about 100 rounds each time.

This led me to thinking about buying the M&P 22 Compact instead, and to spend this year really drilling and locking in all the fundamentals of shooting. By shooting 22LR I could get in 500 rounds every time and get WAY more practice.

Then once I'm actually shooting well add in the 9mm M&P and train with it alongside the 22LR.

In the meantime my AR and 686+ will do just fine for HD duty.

Is this a good route to go?
Good idea.
 
I think it's a pretty good plan. I agree that, ideally, one should practice with one's SD or HD setup. Finances get in the way of that sometimes. Right now, .22LR is as cheap as I've seen it in a very long time. If you can increase your trigger time by 3x or more without breaking the bank, that's a win, IMHO.

Agree with Spats. Besides you are in no hurry, don't have a lot of time and sincerely want to improve.
 
1) As an instructor and handgunning mentor, I always advise that the first handgun a person buys should be TWO handguns; one being their desired application handgun, and the other a target style 22LR pistol (Ruger Mark IV). The advantages in developing fundamentals using a low recoil, high precision 22LR target style pistol are invaluable and increase both the extent of skill development and the pace of development. I very rarely take a handgun to the practice range without taking a 22LR pistol with me, and almost always start my drill practice with the 22LR - often my performance with the 22LR will dictate what I work on for the day.

Is there any advantage to the MKIV/Buckmark/Victory type target pistol over a 22LR revolver? It seems that everyone recommends them over the "lookalike" types like SR-22, M&P 22, etc. because of the accuracy and reliability. Would a 22LR revolver have the same benefits?
 
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@mrblenderson - revolvers can work, but they’ve not proven to me to be as productive as target style pistols.

The idea is to practice with a relatively heavy pistol with a long sight radius and a high dexterity, single action trigger. Typically, the balance and handling of a 22LR DA revolver won’t be as good as a 22Lr revolver, and the lock time in revolvers is significantly less forgiving. As much of a fan of single action revolvers as I am, I abhor 22LR SA revolvers as a practice pistol - loading and unloading is mind bendingly terrible for me. The long lock time is a hindrance.

Price is the biggest driver, to me, accuracy behind price. For $350, a guy can get into a top quality, entry level target style pistol. An equivalently priced revolver will be low quality. A GP100 22LR costs twice as much as a Mark IV.

If you’re ONLY training to use a centerfire revolver, then a 22LR revolver makes more sense, but for general handgunning fundamentals, the target style 22 pistols run away with the game when it comes to productivity.
 
I'm ready to buy another pistol primarily for home defense and almost bought an M&P 9mm.

Then I started to think about the amount of training I can actually do with it, given that funds are still very limited and our toddler takes up almost all my free time.

The most I can possibly get to the range is 2-4 times a month, and if I'm shooting 9mm I can really only afford to shoot about 100 rounds each time.

This led me to thinking about buying the M&P 22 Compact instead, and to spend this year really drilling and locking in all the fundamentals of shooting. By shooting 22LR I could get in 500 rounds every time and get WAY more practice.

Then once I'm actually shooting well add in the 9mm M&P and train with it alongside the 22LR.

In the meantime my AR and 686+ will do just fine for HD duty.

Is this a good route to go?
Yes, I see a lot of shooters at the range that line up their center fire handgun ammo on the bench like sticks of gold.
They shoot a mag, pick up their brass, and pace around trying to extend their range time.
Using a 22lr pistol will greatly increase your shots per dollar, and extend you range time actually shooting.
What you save will more than pay for the 22 gun/ammo over time.
Even starting with the 22 gun/ammo for 100rds before switching to center fire, on every range visit, will get you more trigger time for way less money.
Your logic here is sound, go for it.
:thumbup:
 
Is there any advantage to the MKIV/Buckmark/Victory type target pistol over a 22LR revolver? It seems that everyone recommends them over the "lookalike" types like SR-22, M&P 22, etc. because of the accuracy and reliability. Would a 22LR revolver have the same benefits?

I tend to be with varimnterror on this one. A significant benefit/point to use of a .22lr is to strip away shooting to the most bare essentials, and remove as many challenges/distractions as possible while still leaving the fundamental exercise intact. This best positions the shooter to deal with sight alignment, sight-tracking, and straight-back trigger pull challenges.

A revolver (fired DA, especially) has significant additional challenges. Those are good to work through, to, but unless that's really your focus, it's adding one more ball to the juggling routine - a routine you're trying to strip to bare essentials. This is made worse by the heavy springs that rimfires have to run.
 
A good Ruger or Buckmark is recommended due to the proven track record of performance, durability, and longevity of the platforms. Especially when the functions are the same for other platforms. Slide release, safety, mag release all in similar location let you practice all the drills you would with a bigger caliber platform. Not to mention the modifications and upgrades that can be done. Sights, lasers, and lights; volquatzen kits, cans, and scopes can all be added just like you would a duty sidearm. Basically the skills transfer. Not to mention that millions of owners can’t all be wrong. The venerable.22 will live on. I just hope that this was helpful.
 
dry-fire ten minutes a day will be the most benefit for your "issue", imo. every handgun shooter should own a 22lr semi-auto pistol (or two), imo.

luck,

murf
 
If I understand the OP correctly, he mostly wants to improve his defensive shooting skills and a .22 l.r. is a cost saving alternative to reinforce the fundamentals - but only if the fundamentals have been properly learnt. Besides dry firing, there is the option of getting an air soft pistol to practice for speed. It can be done with reduced size targets and while on the move at minimal operating costs after the initial purchase.

I trained my sons with a S&W 22A to "warm up" at the range, especially to get a good rhythm and trigger control during double taps. We shot over 110,000 rounds through that gun and did not count the airsoft rounds. We ended the range sessions with 50 rounds of centerfire each.

When my oldest son was 14, he pointed out how miserably inadequate the shooting skills of most of the other shooters at the gun rangs in South Eastern Florida were and mused that they did not learn the basics employing the .22 as a training tool.
 
I guess the one question I would like to ask the OP...


Do you ENJOY shooting .22 from a handgun?
Or at all?


I think you have to answer this first.
If you enjoy it, the practice part will take care of itself.

If you don't or find it boring, then it will not have been "a good route to go".
Even if it is cheaper to do round-for-round.
 
mrblenderson

I have always started out new shooters with a .22, be it a rifle or a handgun (Ruger 10/22, Beretta Model 70S, Ruger Mk.II, or a S&W Model 34). Once they have become accustomed to shooting that and have reasonably mastered the fundamentals: first safety then proper stance and grip, breathing technique, sight picture, and trigger control.

Once they have that down I move them up to a centerfire handgun, either a .357 revolver (shooting .38 Special in it), or a 9mm. full size semi-auto (S&W Model 686, Browning Hi-Power, or a SIG P229). After that they can always try their hand with a 1911 in .45 ACP.

After doing this for many years with family and friends I believe everyone has come away at least with a better idea how guns operate, how they can get the most out of their shooting practice, and how to find what works best for them.

So I think my best advice to you is to find a quality .22 revolver or semi-auto that's reliable and accurate (a Ruger Mk.IV Target or a Browning Buckmark), and take your time mastering it. Then take what you have learned and liked about shooting a .22 and move on to something in a centerfire handgun.
 
I appreciate everyone weighing in.

This has made me think a lot more about what my specific goal is, beyond just being a better shooter in general.

I think I'm pretty well covered for home defense with my AR, and honestly the chances of that situation happening are very unlikely for us - we live in a very nice, low-crime neighborhood, have motion-sensor lights, a security system, and three large, loud dogs.

If I am ever in a self-defense scenario, I think it's far more likely that it will be when I'm out of the house during the day in various areas throughout Miami. I carry a J-frame (642), so I think I've come to the conclusion that my real goal is to become as proficient as possible with that.

I'm reasonably competent with it - I can reliably put the whole cylinder in the center of a target at 7-10 yards. No idea what the group size is, but certainly nothing to write home about.

The recoil on that little thing makes me not want to fire more than 30-50 rounds in a session, though - and I definitely degrade in performance on the end.

Maybe a 22LR J-frame or similar size revolver would be the way to go.
 
Therenis a difference in practicing trigger time and learning how to control the recoil of your carry gun while shooting faster than target speed. With that said starting sloly with the fundamentals is a great idea. When you master one skill you add complexity. When you master static shooting, add movement. I recommend a shot timer at some point to give yourself a metric and some artificial stress. IMHO a .22 pistol in a similar platform to your carry gun would be a great choice.
 
I appreciate everyone weighing in.

This has made me think a lot more about what my specific goal is, beyond just being a better shooter in general.

I think I'm pretty well covered for home defense with my AR, and honestly the chances of that situation happening are very unlikely for us - we live in a very nice, low-crime neighborhood, have motion-sensor lights, a security system, and three large, loud dogs.

If I am ever in a self-defense scenario, I think it's far more likely that it will be when I'm out of the house during the day in various areas throughout Miami. I carry a J-frame (642), so I think I've come to the conclusion that my real goal is to become as proficient as possible with that.

I'm reasonably competent with it - I can reliably put the whole cylinder in the center of a target at 7-10 yards. No idea what the group size is, but certainly nothing to write home about.

The recoil on that little thing makes me not want to fire more than 30-50 rounds in a session, though - and I definitely degrade in performance on the end.

Maybe a 22LR J-frame or similar size revolver would be the way to go.
i think that is not a good idea. revolvers are difficult to shoot accurately. a semi-auto is much better to hone your basic shooting skills.

luck,

murf
 
As a teenager back in the dim old stone age of the early 70s, I was only able to get to the local indoor .22 range in the basement of my high school. Every Sunday morning I packed up my Browning Medallist and walked a few blocks to shoot with my club that had been allocated that time slot for the range. .22 rifles and pistols only. Bullseye target shooting only. 20 yards only, with an angled boiler plate steel backstop and a sand pit to catch the flattened slugs.
State of the art for 1952 when it was built.
For 2 years I shot slow, timed, and rapid fire with my .22 pistol every week, though I longed to shoot my .455 Colt New Service revolver. Once in a while they allowed me to put a couple of cylinder-fulls down range, though it was against the rules of the school. But, those big fat slow soft lead slugs did no harm, and no one could tell the difference after they hit the pit.
When I did join the local Fish and Game Outdoor range and started shooting center-fire pistols and revolvers to my heart's content, that constant .22 practice made all the difference. The fundamentals were ingrained and the transition was nothing. I heartily recommend .22 pistol and revolver training to anyone to learn the fundamentals.
 
...This has made me think a lot more about what my specific goal is, beyond just being a better shooter in general...

As you’ve learned here,
1) opinions are like elbows; everyone has a couple, and
2) asking for advice on the internet will gather every conceivable diverse opinion

Personally (my opinion), .22’s are invaluable for trigger control & sight picture practice. In addition they are a ton of fun for everybody (guest shooters, your wife, & eventually your children). But your needs and circumstances should drive your decision. Best of luck with it!
 
I appreciate everyone weighing in.

The recoil on that little thing makes me not want to fire more than 30-50 rounds in a session, though - and I definitely degrade in performance on the end

You should try shooting a nice 148 wad cutter. Soft shooting practice may hold you up better at the end.
 
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